You Can’t Save Someone by Losing Yourself: Suicide Loss, Caregiver Burnout & People-Pleasing | Part 1
[00:00:00] What if you did everything you could to save someone you loved, but somewhere along the way you lost yourself too?
[00:00:08] Janna Holterman: And I was about to say good, and then I was like, I can't say good because-
[00:00:12] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:00:12] Janna Holterman: there is no bone in my body that feels good right now. Wow. , I am barely holding it together.
[00:00:19] And how do you stop asking what you should have done and begin honoring everything you did do?
[00:00:27] Listen now to part one of my deeply personal conversation with ICU nurse, coach, and survivor of suicide loss, Jana Holterman. You can't save someone by losing yourself. Suicide loss, caregiver burnout, and people-pleasing.
[00:00:43]
[00:01:34] Welcome back to another episode of Empowering Women in Conversations, where we have honest conversations about healing, relationships, identity, and what it truly means to become an empowered woman.
[00:01:45] September is Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. And today, we're having a deeply important conversation about mental illness, suicide loss, caregiver burnout, grief, and learning how to live again after experiencing the [00:02:00] unimaginable. Before we begin, please know that this episode includes a discussion of suicide.
[00:02:06] We will not be discussing graphic details, but we encourage you to take care of yourself or anyone that you know that is struggling with mental illness while listening to this episode. If you or someone you know is experiencing a mental health crisis or having thoughts of suicide in the United States, call or text 988, reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
[00:02:32] Today's guest is Jana Holterman, an ICU nurse, coach, mentor, trained intuitive, and host of the Unlocking You More podcast. She uses neuroscience, this is what got me here, and nervous system regulation, emotional processing, and intuition to help women get their bodies and brains and emotions working together- Mm-hmm
[00:02:58] so they can create [00:03:00] sustainable success without sacrificing themselves in the process. After working as an ICU nurse through trauma of 2020, jana faced an unimaginable personal loss when her husband died by suicide in 2022 following a struggle with severe mental illness.
[00:03:18] Her healing journey led her to rebuild her identity, deepen her relationship with herself, and create the work that she now shares with other women. Jana, welcome to Empowering Women in Conversations. Thank you for trusting us with such a personal and important part of your story.
[00:03:37] Janna Holterman: Thank you so much.
[00:03:38] It's an honor to be here, and that was an absolutely beautiful introduction. I appreciate it.
[00:03:42] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: It really gets me 'cause we know someone or have experienced closely someone who has, has passed by suicide, and it really- Mm-hmm ... affects the person. And so you being here is gonna help so many people because- September is Suicide [00:04:00] Prevention Awareness Month I wanna begin with your experience.
[00:04:03] That you only need to share what feels emotionally safe for you today. Just- Mm-hmm ... take us back to the period when you first began to realize that your husband was struggling with his mental health. What changes did you begin noticing?
[00:04:17] Janna Holterman: When we got together, we were in college, and prior to us dating, I had been...
[00:04:23] He had told me that he had some really bad concussions, and post his concussions he had gone through some depression. So when we started dating, he had recovered from that, and I really never, , noticed any obvious signs of mental illness in, the first four years of our relationship. Yeah.
[00:04:38] What started the changes for him was actually getting sick with COVID, and, we both got sick right after our wedding. Great timing, right?
[00:04:49] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:04:50] Honeymoon, , ugh. I know.
[00:04:52] Janna Holterman: Literally. Literally. Yeah. I'm like, what a time to be alive. - Yeah ... we both got sick. I literally had, the most mild symptoms.
[00:04:59] [00:05:00] Sore throat, nothing. Wow ... really nothing. And he was, like, completely, barely able to get out of bed, barely able to function for, six weeks. It was truly a long time. Now, he had during that period, neurological symptoms, which is really weird and of course most people are like, "Oh, it's just like flu-like symptoms."
[00:05:21] Fine. Yeah. But he was getting, , nerve shooting pains and stuff, going down his spine, into his legs. Like, very strange neurological symptoms. Okay. Along with that, he was just kind of like, you know, paranoid. And I was like, this is new. Maybe this is just him being sick. His body's trying to go through all this stuff.
[00:05:37] So once he was, like, better from, feeling sick, he was still experiencing a lot of neurological symptoms. Okay. So we literally went to neurologists and, like, all of the doctors. He had CTs and MRIs and-
[00:05:50] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:05:50] Janna Holterman: all of the things that we would normally do, 'cause you're like, you're still having problems that go beyond what should've been happening, right?
[00:05:58] And so [00:06:00] no test really showed anything specific. There was no medical answers for what was going on. Mm. So basically it was kind of like, all right, we gotta figure out how to, naturopathically, homeopathically support him. And that was kind of, the path that we went down and, lots of supplements, lots of, diet, all those things to kind of help him.
[00:06:21] And really, I feel like he continued to have mild anxiety that he didn't have prior, but it really became more manageable because we had a lot more tools to support him.
[00:06:33] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Okay.
[00:06:34] Janna Holterman: And because we had the tools and we were doing lots of things, like lifestyle-wise to really help him, it kind of, like- managed. So during this process, he was doing, finishing his master's degree.
[00:06:45] So he's finished his master's degree. So he was still highly functional. It wasn't like he wasn't-
[00:06:49] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Okay ...
[00:06:49] Janna Holterman: going through things. And he was like, "All right, well, we're gonna, continue on with life." and so his next plan was basically to do his PhD. Wow. So we were looking [00:07:00] at PhD programs, and he found one that he, really liked, which was in Florida.
[00:07:06] So we moved to Florida. He started his PhD program, did fairly well for, the first year actually.
[00:07:15] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Okay.
[00:07:15] Janna Holterman: And then that was kind of where mental health-wise things started to decline. Okay. So I think with the classes he was in, doing biochemistry, so there was a lot of, labs and
[00:07:26] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah
[00:07:26] Janna Holterman: stresses, and he would have to go in to, Work on his samples at odd hours and things like this. So the stress of that, I think, started to really start to amplify things. And that was kind of where things started to... Just I noticed, changes in just he wasn't handling his stress, and he was getting more anxious and more worried about things there was more paranoia that wasn't logical for the situations that were happening, things like that.
[00:07:55] Okay. And so at that point, we had started, , I was [00:08:00] already really, , into neuroscience and, . in nursing school, I took, like, all my electives were psychology. So I was already, fascinated by the brain.
[00:08:07] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:08:07] Janna Holterman: So this was like, all right, , let's go, get you a therapist.
[00:08:11] , start doing some therapy sessions. He was actually working with a therapist and a life coach through this.
[00:08:16] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Okay.
[00:08:16] Janna Holterman: And he did start seeing, a psychiatrist and started getting medicated as well, because it was getting to the point where it was not something that we could manage with just all of the tools that we knew how to do.
[00:08:28] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:08:28] Janna Holterman: Despite that, things started to continue to really take, a deep decline in the, the amount of paranoia that was, he was having just started to exponentially increase.
[00:08:41] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Okay.
[00:08:41] Janna Holterman: And the, depression that he was having started to get worse as well, where it was like, "Oh, I don't know if I wanna do what I'm doing in my PhD program.
[00:08:51] I've worked, literally been in school for already, six years. Is this really what I wanna continue doing? And it started to snowball [00:09:00] from there of just ex- increasing. I am so grateful for both of our families, 'cause we both really had extremely supportive families.
[00:09:08] So as he was worsening, He was talking to them and telling them what was going on, and both members of his family and my family, came and visited us, for a weekend, a week at a time. We did activities. We were going and doing things. And, he was still, like, exercising.
[00:09:26] He was still doing things that would be supporting himself.
[00:09:30] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:09:30] Janna Holterman: We were then being like, "Okay, none of this is seeming to work. He seems to get worse and worse." Mm-hmm. He was then not able to focus on his schooling and meet his milestones for, the lab and everything, so he took a leave of absence from school.
[00:09:43] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Okay.
[00:09:44] Janna Holterman: I think that was what he needed stress-wise, but unfortunately, that was, the instigator of, could not even function, getting out of bed kind of level of depression. Ah. So again, it was like, okay, going back to the, going back to the psychiatrist and, things are [00:10:00] getting worse.
[00:10:00] We're not functioning, and then he really wasn't sleeping. He would sleep for an hour or two, getting up, all these things.
[00:10:05] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:10:06] Janna Holterman: all of these different avenues and aspects of his mental health were declining from so many different perspectives, and then it's, going to the people that you think would help, and unfortunately, none of that was working.
[00:10:17] Going from what I've known and, looked and researched, because I'm also like a, "Well, why is this happening? What can I do about it?- Mm ... kind of person. So I'm researching things. We're seeing the doctor. We're seeing the therapist. We're seeing a life coach. We're seeing, a homeopathic d- like, literally, we were going- Wow
[00:10:32] to so many appointments trying, ... everything. It just continued to decline and decline and decline. And I think... I don't feel like I was fully aware of it, but I definitely had that, nothing seems to be working, and I was starting to feel a little bit hopeless as well, and just extremely mentally and physically exhausted because I was literally still working as a nurse doing my 12-hour shifts-
[00:10:56] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah
[00:10:56] Janna Holterman: and then coming home and trying to take care of him. And I was really trying [00:11:00] to, have, like... It was, like, organizing, trying to have people come over when I was at work or trying to, have things for him to do to, keep him hopefully, . occupied and doing things. , and so it just seemed to progress and progress.
[00:11:13] I wouldn't say that there was, anything unusual for what we had been experiencing at that point. But I, , went up, I got up, went to work. All the things were normal. And then I had the, worst feeling, like somebody just, punched me in the gut in the middle of my day at work.
[00:11:30] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Wow.
[00:11:30] Janna Holterman: Could not explain it, of course, 'cause it was not something, like, logical. But I was like, "Something bad has happened." he wasn't responding to his phone. I literally had a neighbor go and knock on his door, the door. He didn't respond. The dog was barking, and I'm like, "Okay," he has nowhere he would go.
[00:11:46] I literally had to drag him out of the house, he w- he would be there. And so I kinda, ran to my manager, and I was like, "I have to leave." Thank God everybody was like... They took over my patient assignment, and I, probably drove home a little bit too recklessly, but I had to go, right? [00:12:00] Yeah.
[00:12:00] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:12:01] Janna Holterman: And unfortunately, when I, I arrived home, I did find him, and he had ended up taking his own life while I was at work. Wow.
[00:12:09] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Let me just pause here, because I know survivors of suicide loss can carry an enormous amount of guilt. Mm-hmm. Warning signs are not always visible or recognizable, and recognizing a sign does not mean a loved one could have controlled or prevented what happened.
[00:12:28] Jana, you sought help, and you loved your husband through something profoundly difficult. And you're even sharing all the different ways that you tried to help and assist your loved one. What would you say to someone who believes that love, support, or saying the right thing should always be enough to prevent a suicide?
[00:12:48] Janna Holterman: I don't think that there's any one thing that could fix any of this, right?
[00:12:56] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:12:57] Janna Holterman: when you're, the way our brain [00:13:00] works is really about, perceptions and awareness. Your brain is gonna focus on what it thinks is most important to it, and unfortunately, when somebody is in such a deep place, really no matter what you say or do, their brain is so fixated, even if it's something illogical, their brain is so fixated on that thing, their brain is gonna be finding all of the evidence to prove that's true.
[00:13:24] So even if they're not sharing that they had wishes to harm themselves, but that's what they're in their back of their head, and I think that he wasn't, necessarily sharing those things with me specifically because, he's like, "Oh, she's literally doing everything that she could." she, like I know that he...
[00:13:42] 'Cause he would say that all the time. He's like, "I'm so grateful for you. I know you're trying really hard." Yeah. And it was like, well, I know I'm trying really hard, but I want you to try really hard. Yeah. And I just don't know if he felt that he had the capacity to do so.
[00:13:55] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah. I, I always say to my patients, the [00:14:00] worst pain someone can have is seeing a loved one suffer and not being able to do anything about it.
[00:14:08] Janna Holterman: Yeah.
[00:14:09] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Because it's their responsibility, and it's so much, outside, but you can't do the work inside. How can we support someone- Mm-hmm ... who has lost a loved one to suicide without saying something that increases their guilt or pain?
[00:14:25] Janna Holterman: I really think, again, it's the same thing of, if their brain was so fixated on all, like, how nothing was ever gonna change anything, sometimes it is about, finding what we did do.
[00:14:37] 'Cause I think so many of us are like, "Oh my God, I could have done better here, I could have done this, I could have said this." Yeah. Okay, but what did you do? I think that helped for me I can find evidence that, , I did do everything I knew at that time that I could have done to help him.
[00:14:52] Yeah. And really focusing your brain on that of, like, okay I did do all these things and that did help him, or I was just there, When [00:15:00] somebody is going through something, just having a friend come and sit, even if they don't say anything, is huge, and I think that's the same too.
[00:15:09] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:15:09] Janna Holterman: Only after going through this did I truly realize, even though I had a level of understanding of, my brain and, some psychology stuff, and I was interested in that, I don't think I truly ever had created the space for myself to process, to feel. Yeah. That was something that was the real big eye-opener after this period.
[00:15:32] 'Cause I had been raised with that, "I'll give you something to cry about," "Calm down," and unknowingly that really deeply conditioned that, my emotions weren't necessarily a valid thing. They were a thing to just get over and move past from. Yeah. And then having something as life-changing and devastating as this happen, it really was like, okay, it was big enough that I literally gave myself permission to be like, "Oh, maybe I, I do need to grieve.
[00:15:58] I do need to feel this."
[00:15:59] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:15:59] Janna Holterman: [00:16:00] And I think that was a huge eye-opener, and that has continued on in my life of just recognizing how important it is to give yourself, even just, to see yourself, to validate yourself of, oh my God, that was so hard. I worked so hard. I am mentally, physically, emotionally invested everything into this.
[00:16:20] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:16:21] Janna Holterman: what am I feeling? How am I feeling? Yeah. How is it valid that I was feeling the way that I was feeling? Yeah. And giving that space. When you're talking to somebody, like this is, you know, each person is different, but even if it's just like a, "Hey, I, I am here for you. What can I do to support you?" and especially in that state of grief, like it is its own level of like, all I can do is just grieve. Can I bring you a meal?
[00:16:47] Can I grab you something? Whenever even, anyone loses somebody, I've really shifted away from the "I'm sorry that happened to you," because like of course. Like, that's obvious.
[00:16:57] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah,
[00:16:57] Janna Holterman: yeah. Nobody wants this to happen to anybody. Yeah. But it's [00:17:00] just like, "Okay, like I'm here for you.
[00:17:01] What do you need from me? What can I do for you?" And everyone's is a little bit different, and they may not know. And I think that's also something of being like an empathetic person of well, they didn't say that they needed this, but I can tell that they like haven't had a good meal.
[00:17:14] Let me go bring them some takeout or make them something,
[00:17:17] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: . You said two things, and I had to write it down. First- is the, the not saying anything, because a lot of people think, "I don't know what to say," and, "What if I say the wrong thing?" You might. You might say the wrong thing, but so what?
[00:17:30] You know what? You were there. You tried. And the other thing I remember, a good friend of mine had a personal devastating loss, and all I could say was, "There are no words. There are no words." Yeah. And they responded with, "There are not any words." I, I- No ... I agree. Yeah. And all we did was hug and cry Yeah.
[00:17:55] 'Cause there's no words sometimes.
[00:17:57] Janna Holterman: And, and I think with the point of, you could say the [00:18:00] wrong thing. People don't remember the words you say.
[00:18:02] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:18:02] Janna Holterman: They remember how you made them feel, right?
[00:18:04] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Oh, thank you for saying that. Yeah. and that's it. Sometimes I send them reels. "Hey, you know what?
[00:18:09] This reel, that reel." And it doesn't have to be all devastating and anything. It's like, "Look, I thought of you. I had this dream of you." Mm-hmm. And it can be something silly, but the fact that you're still there, not, Yeah ... ignoring them or just going, "Okay, they're going through something," and give them space.
[00:18:23] I'm not saying not give them space, but don't forget about them either.
[00:18:28] Janna Holterman: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:28] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: That was the one thing, and then the other thing is women, 'cause I deal with women who are people-pleasers in failed relationships, and this one's like a gut punch sometimes, that when something happens to someone and you're the female, let's say you were the wife and maybe a mother, and something happens- Mm-hmm
[00:18:45] to their children, why are the women always bashed? Oh, 'cause we're the ones who have to be of service to others. We're the caregivers. We're- Yeah ... have to always people please and give to others. So when something happens and [00:19:00] it really is out of your control and not your responsibility, yet somehow we're still given that responsibility that wasn't ours.
[00:19:07] It's, "Oh, well you didn't do enough," "What part of you did not do?" And it might translate as an inner thought, irrational belief. Yes. And just wanted to kind of bring that up, in your experience, what are your thoughts
[00:19:20] Janna Holterman: I think it is so normal, for women in general, and then, being a nurse, right?
[00:19:26] It is so natural to want to take care of somebody else, and even take responsibility. Yeah. Type A personality, right? High achiever over here being like, "Oh, okay," "I can do this and more." Mm-hmm. But there's only so much you actually have the capacity to do, I always think of, my capacity or anything,
[00:19:47] yeah. If your phone battery has 100%, it's at zero, it's not gonna make a phone call, you can't even send a text message if it's at zero.
[00:19:55] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Exactly.
[00:19:55] Janna Holterman: But yet we expect ourselves to continue [00:20:00] on and show up and do things for other people when we're at zero. And then what ends up happening is we're literally physically causing damage, stress to our bodies, all of these things.
[00:20:10] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yes.
[00:20:11] Janna Holterman: At what cost? What does it actually do? And I think this is something that most people have created this as an expectation, and I think it always comes back to, "I want people to love me and accept me." ultimately I truly believe that people are... Like, they reflect you back to you.
[00:20:29] So the more you pour into yourself and care for yourself, the more you're gonna be able to show up and care for others. But also people are gonna recognize, "Hey, oh, she really is, caring for herself. I gotta respect her time. I gotta respect her energy." And it's insane how much that has actually shifted-
[00:20:49] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah
[00:20:50] Janna Holterman: because people don't- ask me to do things like they used to, because I'm like, "No, I'm like a woman who has boundaries around my time." and people don't even [00:21:00] ask 'cause they're like- Yeah ... "Oh, no. I know that she's got this." So I, I do think a lot of it comes back to really where our own self-image, self-love levels are at for ourselves, and then other people reflecting those back to us.
[00:21:14] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Oh, I love how you said that. I never noticed that until I started becoming empowered, resilient, and authentic. Before, people would just ask me stuff and I'd get so resentful like, "Ugh," you know? Yeah. But then I wouldn't- Mm-hmm ... set boundaries. I'd be like, "Okay, okay," right? And then, there was this, situation earlier and the person was like, "Look, I exhausted all of my go-to people.
[00:21:36] I know you're busy. Only if you can. If not, that's okay. Not a big deal. It's a favor." And I'm like, "Oh, wow, so nice of them to even consider that." That would have never happened in a million years when I was- Mm-hmm ... a former people-pleaser. And- Totally ... , and it felt great. And you said something earlier.
[00:21:56] Mm-hmm. Zero battery. Caregiver burnout. [00:22:00] Very common- Yeah ... for providers. Totally. And I hear something that many women in my audience will recognize, they were caring for people during whatever time in their life- Mm-hmm ... whether it's their kids or your loved one going through something, trying to keep everything together, their body becoming depleted.
[00:22:21] Janna Holterman: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: When did you realize that you were no longer simply tired, but that you were experiencing deep caregiver burnout?
[00:22:29] Janna Holterman: It really was, like, a while into the decline of his mental health. Yeah. And it's so interesting to me, 'cause I feel like I was still, doing things. I still- Yeah ... would do some self-care activities.
[00:22:41] It wasn't as much as I was doing before.
[00:22:44] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Okay.
[00:22:44] Janna Holterman: But I think all of those, it's a little bit different on your body to just go for a walk versus, to run a marathon, right? Mm-hmm. That, endurance takes its toll on your joints and, everything, right? your body has to work so hard to [00:23:00] do the distance.
[00:23:01] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yes.
[00:23:01] Janna Holterman: I was like, "Oh yeah, I can do it. It's fine. I think I still had that, it's only temporary, , we're gonna get through this, and I think that was, my, little bone hook that I was putting in front of myself to be like Yeah
[00:23:12] I can do this. I've just gotta go a little further. Oh, my gosh. But I remember very clearly, I think it was, like, the month before he ended up passing away, I went to Starbucks and I was having coffee with my friend, and she was just like, "How are you doing?" And I remember, sitting there being like, "I don't even know.
[00:23:31] I don't, .." yeah. You know how mostly you're like, "Oh yeah, I'm good." Yeah. And I was about to say good, and then I was like, I can't say good because-
[00:23:39] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:23:39] Janna Holterman: there is no bone in my body that feels good right now. Wow. , I am barely holding it together. And I just had this is a big problem I don't think I fully realized it until that point.
[00:23:53] And then it was like, okay, I got to take a little bit more time to figure out what I'm doing, what I'm, what's happening, , pour into myself a little bit [00:24:00] more. And I do think I made a little bit of change, but then it was a month later when he actually passed away,
[00:24:06] Then I had the grief on top of everything. But just- Yeah ... recognizing that I was, like, so beyond depleted-
[00:24:13] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:24:13] Janna Holterman: on every level, , mentally, physically, emotionally, I think even spiritually. It was, there was just, it was so- Yeah ... so incredibly - Yeah ... depleted. And it took me a long time to fully restore and recharge
[00:24:28] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: As a nurse, do you know how long it takes for someone with chronic burnout to actually recharge and regain their adrenal glands, their system back to somewhat functional?
[00:24:41] Janna Holterman: There's no, specific timeline. I truly think it's 'cause everyone is different, and what are they doing to support themselves? "Okay, I really, truly took a month off and all I did was, like, sleep and eat well and, start to move my body in a way that, worked [00:25:00] for it," I think you could recover in a short period of time.
[00:25:03] But most people's burnout is so far beyond just the physical. A lot of it is, years of pent-up emotions and all of these belief systems that are amplifying it. There's so much deeper than just the physical. The physical is this is a late stage and you... I like to say, you know how you habituate, like you have a bad smell- Yeah
[00:25:27] and you stop noticing it after a while. Yeah. People habituate to problems in their life and stressors in their life. Mm-hmm. So it takes to the point of their body physically breaking down or getting a chronic illness diagnosis or chronic pain- Yes.
[00:25:40] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yes ...
[00:25:40] Janna Holterman: to really realize, "Oh, I have a problem." But unfortunately, most of us have been conditioned to go to the doctor and- Mm-hmm
[00:25:49] try to get a med versus being like, this is-
[00:25:53] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:25:53] Janna Holterman: a deeper issue. The reason this is coming up is because I've just spent the last decade [00:26:00] beating the crap out of myself every single day in my head and stressing over and not taking care of myself. That's what's causing this more than- Mm ... , the symptom that's showing up.
[00:26:09] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Oh, yeah. I, I cannot even explain how many times a female woman comes to my practice and going, "Okay, I'm depleted. I'm exhausted. I'm being resentful. I need you to just help me so I can continue doing what I was doing because I'm not able to do it anymore." And I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that doesn't work."
[00:26:28] "I've gone through all doctors, and they all say- ... behavioral health." And I'm like, "Yeah, that person she's pretty much done, and Yeah ... You need to rebuild and become someone else." you mentioned belief systems. Mm-hmm. How can women release this belief that protecting, their own health means they are abandoning someone they love?
[00:26:51] Janna Holterman: How functional was this phone when it was at zero? We're like, "Well, we should be able to." Okay, do you expect [00:27:00] your cellphone to work when it has no battery? No.
[00:27:03] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:27:03] Janna Holterman: You're like, "It just doesn't work." So, what if the same is true for you?
[00:27:07] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:27:07] Janna Holterman: And I really think that o- once you get in the momentum of it, it doesn't take, , hours upon hours to become, resilient and a, an energetic person.
[00:27:20] It takes a long time in that we really have to build these new neural connections. Yeah. We have to create safety in our nervous system to be able to show up in these situations that probably have stressed us out in the past. Yeah. Or, and process emotions. But once we're in that cycle of, it... You can feel amazing with only, like, you know, little bits of, okay, I'm a priority so I'm gonna spend 30 minutes, , going.
[00:27:45] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:27:45] Janna Holterman: Even if it's, like, okay, I'm gonna spend 30 minutes and go take myself for a coffee date and just, sit there and read a book. Or, whatever.
[00:27:50] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah ...
[00:27:50] Janna Holterman: it could be a bubble bath. It doesn't need to be anything that costs money.
[00:27:53] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:27:54] Janna Holterman: But putting in these little time blocks, 15 minutes here, 30 minutes there, [00:28:00] is actually enough when you're at that point where it's now, maintenance.
[00:28:04] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yeah.
[00:28:05] Janna Holterman: But when you're in that, I literally have zero, it does take more because we literally have to, help our body recover and recharge.
[00:28:12] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Oh, yes. What would you tell the woman who believes it is her responsibility to rescue or heal another adult?
[00:28:22] Janna Holterman: We have amazing things called mirror neurons.
[00:28:25] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Yes. So,
[00:28:26] Janna Holterman: mirror neurons are basically, , other people kinda reflect you back to you. They will mimic your behavior. So- the easiest way to have evidence for this is, somebody yawns, the rest of the people in the room are yawning, right? This is, the quickest, example of- Oh, yeah ... what mirror neuron
[00:28:44] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: does.
[00:28:44] Yeah. Now I want to yawn.
[00:28:45] Janna Holterman: Even the dog.
[00:28:45] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: I know, even talking about it.
[00:28:47] Janna Holterman: Yeah. The dog yawns, I'm yawning, we're all yawning. Okay.
[00:28:49] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: I know.
[00:28:50] Janna Holterman: That is evidence that you have mirror neurons. So congratulations, you have mirror neurons. But what happens is if we show up and start taking care of [00:29:00] ourselves, you're literally leading by example.
[00:29:03] You don't have to say a word. And think about, like, especially if you have kids, do you want your kids-
[00:29:10] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Mm ...
[00:29:10] Janna Holterman: to grow up and feel the way you do now? Do you want them to be where you are right now? Mm-hmm. And, sometimes we really have to ask that. How am I actually feeling overall- Mm-hmm ... in my life right now?
[00:29:23] Am I where I wanna be? Am I feeling the way that I want to? And I think as a high achiever, I can look at, career-wise, I can be like, "Oh, yes, I've checked all of these boxes. I am, quote-unquote, successful," but do I feel like it?
[00:29:37] Anita Sandoval LPC-S: Exactly.
[00:29:38] Janna Holterman: It really, really starts with if I were to, and even if you don't have kids, if I were to, imprint on somebody else and they were gonna do what I was doing right now, would I be satisfied with that?
[00:29:51] In part one, Jana reminded us that loving someone does not give us the power to control or cure their mental illness. But wait, there's [00:30:00] more. Jana's story does not end with losing herself. Next week, we'll continue this powerful conversation in part two: Who are you when you're no longer saving everyone?
[00:30:10] So keep listening and join us next week for part two
[00:30:13]
