Empowering Women In Conversations

The Journey To Empowerment After Betrayal

• Anita Sandoval • Season 2 • Episode 17

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In this episode, we feature Kate Conwell, the founder of Journey Beyond Betrayal, who shares her personal journey of forgiveness and resilience after facing infidelity in her marriage. Discover how Kate turned her own pain into a mission to empower women who've experienced betrayal, and be inspired by her transformative story.

Some Key Takeaways I learned were:

  1. Personal Transformation: Kate Conwell's journey through infidelity in her marriage, 11 years ago, was an incredibly challenging and painful experience. However, it became a catalyst for personal growth and transformation, prompting her to reexamine her life and the kind of person she wanted to become.
  2. The Power of Healing: Kate recognized that healing was necessary, and she decided to pursue it, both individually and with her husband. This journey of healing allowed them to eventually come back together and work on their marriage, which ultimately led to a stronger and more resilient relationship.
  3. Creating a Safe Space: Kate's mission, with Journey Beyond Betrayal, is to provide a confidential and supportive environment where women can openly discuss their experiences, feel affirmed in their feelings, and gain a better understanding of what's normal in such situations. It's about ensuring that no one has to face this painful journey alone.
  4. You're Not Alone: Kate understands that women who have experienced infidelity often feel isolated, misunderstood, and overwhelmed. She aims to be a guide for these women, offering a place where they can find understanding, support, and healing.
If you want to learn more you can connect with Kate Conwell at:
Email: kate@journeybeyondbetrayal.com
Web: www.JourneyBeyondBetrayal.com
Instagram:  @journeybeyondbetrayal
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/journeybeyondbetrayal/

If you enjoyed this episode feel free to listen in to our previous episode:
Unmasking Manipulators and Becoming a Woman Empowered!
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Empowering Women In Conversations



We have a remarkable guest who is truly a beacon of strength and resilience for women who face the unimaginable. You know, what happened in our marriage is not water under the bridge. It happened I forgave him. We reconciled our relationship, and we have moved forward. But it's also a very pivotal piece of how we got to the beat the marriage that we have today.

Meet Kate Conwell, the founder of Journey Beyond Betrayal. Kate's mission is nothing short of remarkable. Through her online membership, community, and one on one coaching, journey Beyond Betrayal is dedicated to empowering heartbroken women in the aftermath of their husband's unfaithfulness. Kate's work helps these women not only regain their confidence, but emerge from the darkness with newfound strength and resilience.

Welcome to Empowering Women in Conversations podcasts to empower and uplift women by providing a safe space for them to share their stories and experiences and encourage the strength, resilience, and power of women. If you are tired of putting others needs before your own, leading to burnout and resentment, and you are ready to transform and create relationships that are supportive rather than draining, join us on this journey of women overcoming adversities and achieving their true empowerment.

Here's your host, a Licensed Professional Counselor, Anita Sandoval. 
Welcome to another inspiring episode of empowering women in conversations. Kate is a certified mental health coach. She firmly believes that every woman has something profoundly valuable to offer in the world, and she's here to guide them on that transformative journey.

And what makes Kate's story even more remarkable is that she launched Journey Beyond Betrayal from her own deeply personal experience. She knows firsthand the pain of infidelity facing it just five years into her own marriage, but what truly sets her apart is how she turned her deepest pain into a God given purpose.

Today, she and her husband, who also pursued his own healing, have been married for over 16 years, a testament to the redeeming power of faith and love. So get ready for an inspiring conversation as Kate Conwell shares her journey of healing, empowerment, and transformation, and how she's helping women emerge from betrayal stronger and more resilient than ever.

Kate, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. And let's start off with our first question for our audience. A bit about your background and expertise in helping women navigate the pain of infidelity. I would be happy to. So I'm Kate, and I am the founder of Journey Beyond Betrayal, which was birthed out of my own experience walking through infidelity in my marriage, what is now eleven years ago.

So, background on that. Five years into our marriage, we had a one year old son. And I discovered that my husband had been unfaithful and over the trickling out of information, received more and more information about what that looked like and how the lies that had been present in our marriage from the beginning and were now revealed.

And so that was,

to date, the most difficult thing I've ever been through. The most painful, heart wrenching, but also probably the most influential in shaping our marriage and who I am because of going through something so hard and then having to look and really look at what is it that I want, who do I want to be? What do I want for our marriage?

While it was extremely painful, it was also a forcing to reexamine my life and our marriage in a way that I think can only happen when you're presented with such a big, traumatic situation. And so while I didn't know if I wanted to be married, I pursued my own healing because I knew I had been.

I was very aware that this was a painful situation and was not going to go away on its own. And so I started to pursue healing, and my husband pursued his healing. And then when I decided, okay, now I'm willing to give this another chance, let's try to work on our marriage together, then we came back together and worked on those things.

And so when we came out the other side, we've always wanted to use our story to help others. And so he's been leading men. And then about almost two years ago now, I had the concept, the idea behind what I wanted to do. And then it was just taking those steps to actually use my experience and what I've been through to help other women so that they don't have to walk through it alone and they have someone to guide them.

A space that's confidential to talk through it, because I really think that's pivotal piece of getting through this is being able to talk about it and talk about it in a safe place and understand what's normal and be affirmed in what you're going through because you feel like you're going crazy.

You feel like nobody understands. You feel like you're not enough. But the reality is that none of those things are true. So that is what I do now, that's a long introduction. I love it, though. I don't know how to make it any shorter. 
Like, okay, you answered all my questions. Done.
I'm kidding. 

I love what you said, because one of the common emotions of betrayal, you said you felt it so heart wrenching. And I've mentioned in previous podcast episodes that betrayal is visceral straight to the heart. And so heartbroken broken heart syndrome is real. And you feel it. It's like somebody punching you, and you're just breathless.

And the other thing I heard was that you chose healing first before marriage. And I know some of my patients have preferred marriage over healing. And what happens? Things creep up, and then they come back, and there's resentment and there's bitterness and there's depression and anxiety. And I love how you chose to do healing first.

Your husband chose to do his healing first, and he made the decision to say, you know what? I need some healing to be aware of that, for both of you, is just so amazing. And I'm seeing how that has helped benefit the relationship between you two. Furthermore, knowing that you are able to offer that support in a non judgmental way for people that are going through that, because there's a lot of programming around women that we have to be nice.

We have to be perfect. We have to be the perfect wife, the stepford wife, as they say. And you don't. You just have to be you, authentically you. And that's what you bring in. And I love that about you. Oh, thank you. That's one of my values, is authenticity.

So thank you for recognizing I see that. What are some common emotions and challenges that women often face when they discover their husband's infidelity? And I know you mentioned some, but what are some of the common emotions that are not being said that you may go through or women?

Oh, gosh, I think you go through the whole host of negative emotions, and you're in shock, disbelief, total confused. You're questioning yourself. You're questioning. The whole world, because your world has essentially been flipped upside down, is what it feels like. You don't know which way is up anymore, because at least for me, it's like your foundation, your day to day foundation is shaken.

 It feels like because you think, oh, this is the person that I can be most vulnerable with. This is the person that I'm most intimate with, and this is the person that now has hurt me in the deepest way. And so it is it's gut wrenching.

It's just this gut wrenching pain that is hard to describe. But in the midst of that too, you're so confused. Like, how could this happen? You're going back in your mind and trying to make sense of something that will really never make sense to you because the person is not acting out in a logical way. We try to take our healthy self and say, well, I would never. Well, that's because you're in a healthy place where you're making decisions in a rational way. And while people think that this is like a rational decision, so much evidence shows that it's often not a rational decision that somebody is making. There's a root that is underneath that. So, I mean, women then blame themselves, I think. They feel like they're not enough.

I mentioned that you feel like it's your fault. Maybe is something I've heard. You feel like you're going crazy. That's another thing I hear common from women, because you're inside of a very crazy situation.

Yeah, that feelings wheel. All the negative ones, just all of that. What you're telling me is we have a sense of programming, at least women do. We grow up, we meet Prince Charming, we get married, and we'll live happily ever after. And then what happens is we notice, wait a second, we're not supposed to be in this part of our marriage.

This is not how it goes. So everything that was programmed just kind of broke, and our mind is trying to make sense, which doesn't make sense because it doesn't go with programming. And you're now left with reality of, oh, wait. Well, they're just trying to cope in their way of whatever is affecting them, hence why healing is to be done and trying to make sense of the reality.

And I think of it as the Matrix when they go the red pill or the blue pill, and you take the pill and you see the reality of what's happening, and you make something beautiful from that authenticity and having that true relationship, but not of the fake personas that the world wants us to be in society.

But what is, is. And that grief that you mentioned. Shock. Denial. I see that as a stage of grief because there are six stages of grief. And do you see that as well? Oh, absolutely. Grief, that was one thing that I'm so grateful someone said to me early on in my healing process was like, you need to grieve and you need to grieve what you've lost.

And we think of grief sometimes as just the loss of a person, but we grieve any loss.

You can grieve in big or small ways over many different things. And so that concept of grief was introduced to me very early on and it's something I try to educate women on because sometimes they haven't even heard of that concept. And so it allows you to put something into a perspective that maybe they weren't already like, oh, yeah, I know grief, the stages of grief. I just never thought I was doing that. And so when you can put words to what you're experiencing, or even words and an understanding behind what you're experiencing, then that's when you can step out and be like, oh, I'm not crazy,

I'm just walking through this in a very normal way. A very crazy situation. But yeah, grief absolutely. The first Q and A we had in our community was on grief and it was really educational to think about. I see that. And then something that I know dependent on the attachment that the person grew up in and maybe if they had any trauma growing up will affect the mourning process within any loss.

Overcoming adversities and becoming empowered one conversation at a time.

When someone tells a person, well, this happened many years ago, it's water under the bridge, you should already move on. What are your opinions with that?

Well, I think that the experiences that we have shape us into the people that we are and then how you process through those experiences are going to influence how they impact you 5, 10, 20 years down the road. What happened in our marriage is not water under the bridge, it happened I forgave him, we reconciled our relationship and we have moved forward.

But it's also a very pivotal piece of how we got to the marriage that we have today, especially with trauma, which infidelity is there's tons of emerging research about how to similar the experience a woman has or any person who's been betrayed through this. Be similar to PTSD. Oh, it is.

And trauma is not water under the bridge.

It's a flowing river that needs to be incorporated. And that's how you heal. Right. It becomes a piece of your life story. And it can actually be for growth if you allow it to be, but it's the soil from which you're going to grow out of what you stand for, which is journey beyond betrayal.

That morning process, I see that as what you're going through as a journey in life and not a destination. Is that somewhat of what I would see? The grieving stage of a person being betrayed when it becomes to infidelity

 As a process, you mean? And the journey never really yeah. It doesn't end with them. It's more of a journey of them always discovering who they are. And now they've moved beyond that betrayal to who they are. But they're still going. Yeah. And there is an element it depends on every person.

Right. My work now is helping other people walk through their journey. So as I'm helping others, I'm continuing on my own journey of learning, of growing, of becoming the woman that I am and will be. And so I allow that experience and that knowledge to shape me. I mean, I think for some women, they do the growth work and they come out of it, and it is just a piece of them that will always be there, but maybe they don't see that.

It's like a continuing journey from that. But I think we're always on a journey in our life.

The destination just keeps it's always out in front of us. We've never really arrived in life.

That's kind of what I would say. It's different from person to person, how much they pinpoint back to that. But I think it's an important

when you're going through infidelity, it's very painful, and you can't see it when you're in the midst of it. But then once you heal from it, it's okay that it's a piece of you moving forward,because it did happen, and it has shaped you in a way. And if you can make that into growth opportunity, that's the best case scenario. What I like to say, I'm really big on analogies is when life gives you lemons, make lemonade and sell it for profit.

Yeah. It's hard when you're in there, as you say, but once you go through the journey, you're starting to see how it has shaped you, be the person that you are in a better aspect of authenticity. What are some healthy. Ways for women to cope with this emotional pain, turmoil that they're going through caused by this infidelity?

That's a great question. And one thing I consistently say, right, it's those negative emotions that we don't want to feel, right? And we're not often taught how to feel them or we're not comfortable feeling them. Maybe you were even told not to hide those or push them away. They're bad.

And I think you need to find a space and allow yourself an opportunity to feel what you're going through because it is painful and it is hard and it is traumatic and you have to grieve it. And by allowing yourself to have a space and a time to let yourself feel the negative feelings that are so uncomfortable to feel that we don't want to feel.

But when you allow them to be felt, they will flow through you and out of you more quickly because you cannot ignore it. You have to let yourself feel it.

I'm not saying sit in depression and wallow in pain forever, but in the beginning especially, and even as you work through the process, creating those pockets of time to let yourself feel uncomfortable will actually,

I believe you won't feel those negative things as much and as long if you actually let yourself feel them when they come. Yes. And so that would be one thing I think is important for women to know. And then I think surround yourself with people that understand as well so that you do know what's normal.

You don't feel crazy, you don't feel alone. You have people speaking into your life, the truths that you can't see for yourself and to help you process and be known inside of that. I think it's essential piece of healing to be with and going back to the feeling of the pain, because I'm really big on that as a counselor. And that's something that we do know. Go through that pain. As Rumi said, in order to get over that pain, you need to go through that pain. It's more of a dance of a back and forth.

Go feel that pain and go back and rest and recover. Then go back and feel that pain. And before you know it, you are desensitizing the body of that pain to allow room and space for what is the possibilities of positivity within yourself, of authenticity. And that is just beautiful.

I would add to what you said. You go back. And forth. And I think that's important too, to allow yourself to step out of it and be like, I am going to put this in a box. As long as you don't put the box and you put on the shelf and you put it in the attic and you never take it out again, it's okay to step out of your life for moments and pretend like this didn't happen because you cannot carry that weight all the time.

And it's okay. Feel joy and to laugh and to pretend like it's not there for moments as well. So there's like, the danger of going too far over here into, like, it didn't happen. I'm not going to deal with it, or like, I'm staying over here. And so that dance is so important because you need both sides of it in order to get to and you said you're stepping in, stepping out.

And I love that. You can't play too much. You can't work too much. Life is just a balance. 

Need further guidance? Connect with the host licensed professional counselor Anita Sandoval on LinkedIn.

What role can friends family support systems play in helping women heal and move forward and recover?

They are pivotal, but it's also with an asterisk, right? Because you need the right people. Okay. Sometimes the wrong people are going to cause more damage. Whether I don't ever think it's intentional, I choose to believe that people are not intentionally trying to hurt other people. But when you don't have people that are maybe educated on this kind of situation, they can't understand.

And so you might get some bad advice. You might get some not so great support.

One woman shared yesterday, someone was like, well, just get over it. Yes. That's why I mentioned that, wow,

you want to let the right people in to walk beside you because you cannot do this alone. You cannot do this alone. And so finding people that really are going to be compassionate and are going to love you where you're at without judgment and support you through this and that was like the heart of Journey Beyond Betrayal, the Community piece.

Of it because I want women to have a safe place where it's all other women who have been through or are going through this. So we get it. We get it. We know what you're going through and can encourage you, support you and be there. We all are struggling with the same questions, right? And so having the community that knows and then also the tangible people that are there that you can cry on their shoulder because we're a virtual community, you need those friends and pick them wisely and also know that
it might not be the person that you think it's going to be. It might be someone else. And I had some beautiful friendships created out of the people that were there to support me and other people that can't handle it. And you realize that sometimes relationships are put to the fire and they don't survive for the people that are walking with other women.

If you are that person, just support them where they are and reserve your judgment, because if you haven't been there, you don't really understand what they're going through. But just listening is powerful. I mean, just listening and accepting and crying with someone is a powerful situation. You noticed that there were some people you thought that you could turn to, and they ended up not being the people you could turn to in the end.

And one of the common misconceptions is that I can turn to my mother, I can turn to my family, and it's going to be okay because they're family. What are your thoughts on that?

That is very case by case, I think. And you know, your family and there's pros and cons to letting your family in. Our family knew what we were going through, and there were some that the dynamic was different. I mean, some were very supportive from the beginning, I think. Some were also hurt, like some of my family were also hurt by his deceptions and him hurting me.

And so he had to repair those relationships, which is understandable, I think. Some people don't know exactly what to say, so then the things they said were hurtful to me, and so then I had to repair those relationships. The benefit of having your family involved is that it provides accountability in the future.

And so because our families are aware, it allowed me also like a sphere of protection, because now everybody knows. And so if anybody sees anything as we move forward,
they're aware and they might say something. Not that they weren't saying anything before, but it was because our family knew and our friends knew. I felt like I had more eyes and I wasn't the only one. Okay, so I think we told a lot of people. I don't think that's what I would recommend is the number of people that we told, but that was part of my husband's healing process.

A lot of people knew. But it's going to be kind of case by case with your family, and you might not know. That's the hard part. You might not know. You might think that someone's going to be there, like I said. And then it turns out they're the ones that you wish you hadn't told.

And then the people that you're like, oh, it's going to be so hard to tell them. They're the ones that are like. Right there, in it with you and walking with you through it. Be prayerful and thoughtful about who you let in. But there has to be somebody. You have to let somebody in.

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You have the betrayal when it comes to in a relationship with infidelity, then you tell someone whom you trust and share this vulnerable situation with and then in essence, get a betrayal as well. When they are not there for you in a non judgmental, compassionate manner, how can someone cope with that secondary betrayal?

That is something that is going to also be very difficult. Right. And I would say to maybe shelf that until you've walked through the first betrayal. Right. Those secondary relationships, how you handle those while they make it worse or better in the moment, you want to deal with it immediately.

But get through the deepest, darkest betrayal first and then figure out how you're going to handle it. Because when you're in the midst of trauma too, you're not thinking logically. Yes. And so it's going to hurt more.

Your mind is really not functioning at its best. It is not. And so how you handle that can be dealt with later.

And then once you do that, but you do need to at some point figure out how to do that. And then it just becomes, well, is this something I need to forgive? Is it a relationship I want to be reconciled? Because there's a difference between extending forgiveness to that person and then reconciling the relationship that's true of any of the betrayals.

And then, do I need to rebuild this trust with them? Or maybe it wasn't a trust issue. All the relationships don't have to be reconciled. Okay. And so knowing the difference between, okay, I may need to forgive this person, but maybe this isn't a person I need to have in my life anymore, or maybe the relationship needs to look different.

Being patient, I think,

and working through forgiveness and what that looks like in each situation, the relationship you had before, the amount of impact of their decision had on your life. And I didn't have many people that I really felt like

I had negative response from, but I've heard of some

horrendous situations. Yes. So I'm understanding when you have that betrayal, if you have when you're extending that relationship and you've been betrayed, maybe they shared some. Stories that you only shared with them and whatnot it's best to just set loving limits to them. And that first situation, that is bigger.

And once that relationship has gone into a place where you're able to relax and find some relief and then be able to think clearly, find solutions through this secondary relationship and see further what you're going to do about that. Yes, totally. And that first relationship could just be you, right?

Or your marriage.

So you need to work on your healing first, and that will be a part of your healing process. And if you really work through healing, you're going to be able to handle that secondary betrayal so much better from that place of some healing than when you're still broken. And now you're broken.

This is broken and you're trying to fix something broken with something broken. There you go. Yes. I love that, and I love what you said on it is your choice whether you choose to forgive and close and end that relationship or forgive and work on making amends and building the trust again.

So it's a choice on that person that they have the power to decide, well, some may not understand what someone is going through, and there are some friends that really want to be there for them, but they have not gone through them that experience. What can you share? Maybe some advice or some thoughts of wisdom here?

For someone to be there that has not personally experienced that, for someone that they love, I would suggest

advice I would give and then just that listening is so powerful and you cannot hurt someone by listening. Right. So you want to say the right thing. You want to take their pain away, but they're in the middle of it. And so just listening to them and being there with them and avoiding any judgment, but just being like, thank you for sharing.

That I can't understand. But I am here for you. I love you. How can I help?

And then on that same note, just give her some grace because she's in the midst of a trauma and she might not be a great friend right now. She's not capable of being a great friend. Yes. And so give her compassion and grace because she may be the one that snaps at you and you don't understand why she's behaving that way.

You maybe not experience the significant loss or trauma that she's walking through. And so just to extend grace and know she's probably coming from a place of hurt and

that secondary. Hurt could come from her, but it's her pain speaking and just giving grace and compassion and a listening ear is really going to go so far.

Connect with Anita on Facebook. Facebook.com slash conversations that work.

Can you share? Are some stories of women that have transformed their lives and found empowerment growth after experiencing this pain of infidelity.

Yeah, there's so many. I mean, there's some very big ones that have written books about it.

I think some of my favorite books I'll reference to, one is called Shattered Vows. Another one we're reading Intimate Deception, both women who have written books about their transformation and their strength and resilience that they've experienced through their deepest, most painful moments of infidelity. And I think even within the community that I have, women that come in and then realize that the strength that they have and the person that they've maybe felt like they lost because it's hidden in the pain, or it was hidden over years even before this, like motherhood. 

And we lose sight of ourselves and who we are, and then realizing, like, wait a minute, I've always been this person, or I've been afraid to be this person, and now I can be this person.

And finding that strength inside of themselves that was always there and was either never shown or was hidden and then reemerged, I mean, that's my hope for every woman that comes through the community. And so the journey beyond Betrayal community has only existed for a year. So some of those stories are still being written, okay?

But there is transformation happening and they are finding those pieces of strength on which to rebuild their lives, on which they will stand in 510 years from now to tell those stories. But I think the people that really heal from it because I've walked through this with other people before the community, most people who heal well from this do want to help others heal well from it as well.

And so that's one thing. It's like when you've been there, anyone who comes to you and says,

I'm there right now, it's like this sisterhood that just is like, okay, let's get through this. And those are people that have healed well. Those are the stories you're talking about, right, of the people who emerged stronger. And I think that's the beauty of it is like. Come out of it healed well.

And you want to help other people heal well. Yes. And experience the same transformation that you experienced through it. I want to say because I know some women like to think, well, is my marriage going to work? Is my marriage not going to work when it comes to this infidelity?

I hear you say healing a lot here, which is a good thing because I want to reiterate this to the audience that first and foremost is your healing, the authenticity that you say. And then if the other person does the same thing, then you're both at that same place to see what is that new normal of amazing relationship that you could have of trueness, because of its authenticity.

I myself, I used to be married many years ago and ended up getting divorced in 2001 because there was infidelity. And I tried to make it work. Going back,

I was healing, but he wasn't. I came from a place of healing and being better and transforming, but he wasn't doing any of the healing. And I just realized this isn't going to work because at best, I'm responsible for 50% of the relationship. And if he isn't doing his part, there's nothing that can be done.

And I wasn't thinking of the marriage. I was thinking of myself. And many moons later, I get remarried and I'm with my husband for oh, my gosh, many years we've known each other and been together. We're going on 20 years next year.

And I realized that through my healing of the first marriage, I realized what I do want, what I don't want, what type of relationship I want is where I'm going through this journey, they're going through this journey, and we're just having that real relationship. I love that you bring in with your story.

There is hope to be married still, but it takes both people to work at it and both continually working on this journey and healing. What are your thoughts on that? Well, first, thank you for sharing that with me. And I know it's not easy to always share those personal things about yourself, so I appreciate that.

That is one of my big messages is that you do have choices.

You get to choose if you heal, and only you can choose. He actually can't choose that. You have to choose to heal yourself. And so I want women to understand that they do have a choice in how this moves forward as far as what it looks like for them, finding healing.

And then. Moving beyond the betrayal. That piece of it is you're responsible for that now. You're not responsible for what happened to you, but you are responsible for what happens now. And so I think you don't feel like you have choices sometimes, but you're making a choice even in that whatever it is that you feel like you're not choosing, you're still choosing it.

Maybe it's just more subconscious. Yeah. Avoidance of it. Yeah, I can't leave because I don't have my own job. Okay, then you're choosing to stay in a financially secure situation rather than something else. You're deciding that him cheating, like being a perpetual cheater, but having financial security is more important than that's your choice.

That is a choice that you are making, and you can make that, and I'm not going to judge you for that. It's your choice. But it doesn't always feel like a choice. Maybe I love that,

but absolutely, it takes two people to heal the marriage. I think if you want your marriage to become better, to become stronger, to become more resilient, that takes two people for the marriage to be healed and for the marriage to grow. You can stay married to someone if they aren't doing anything.

Again, that's your choice. If you marriage above all else, and you're just going to stay married no matter what happens, that is your choice. But to really have a thriving, healed marriage takes two people. And so he has to choose if he's going to pursue healing as well. And

I think at the beginning, you said sometimes people focus on the marriage so much and it's like if you have a man who is working on his healing and a woman who is working on her healing, how in the world is the marriage not going to be healed? Whereas if you try to heal the marriage and you're not fixing the broken pieces in both of you, your lack of communication or the lack of transparency that you had there, and those are not reasons that it's okay to cheat.

Don't get me wrong there. But you have to work on those things together. But if you have someone pursuing their healing and someone else pursuing their healing, of course this is going to work better because you have people in a marriage instead of one or zero.

You have to pursue your own healing, and the marriage will have a way better chance of surviving if you're both doing it. But it takes two people for the marriage. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. And what final advice or words of encouragement do you have for women? Who are listening here to this podcast episode and may be dealing with these similar challenges, I just want you to know there is hope.

If you're in the middle of this, it feels so overwhelming, so all consuming. You think this is going to be the rest of your life and you'll never get through this. But it does not have to last forever. You there is absolutely hope and you get to choose that.

You get to choose to pursue healing and you have that choice. And I would encourage you to make the choice to pursue healing because there is hope on the other side of this.

We didn't touch on this a lot, but I just want to be clear, like, it's not your fault. So whatever he's saying, it is not your fault. Nothing you did or said or didn't do, justifies someone being unfaithful in their marriage. There are all sorts of other alternatives to
any sort of complaint that betrayer may have that don't involve being unfaithful. Just know this is not your fault and it is not because you are not enough.

You're absolutely enough. You were enough before, you were enough when it happened and you are still enough now. Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yes, and thank you so much for sharing your insights and experiences with us today. And I know our listeners are going to want to love to connect with you and learn more from your journey.

So if you can just tell us where they can find you on social media, any other platforms, please feel free to share your websites, handles, any projects that you'd like to highlight. Absolutely. I am at Journey beyond betrayal on Instagram and also Facebook and then website, same www.journeybeyondbetrayal.com, so it's pretty easy to find me.

I have a community to support you with other women surrounding you to walk through this. I do one on one coaching to personalize the support and really help you see progress as you work towards whatever healing looks like for you and the struggles that you have specifically. So if you are a woman that is walking through this, I would love to meet you, support you, hear your story and just figure out what we can do to help you see the hope and find the healing that you're looking for.

Yes, and I'll go ahead and put that and post that in the show notes, everyone. So feel free to look up the show notes and you'll see the links there. And I want to end this podcast episode with two questions for you. What is your definition of an empowered woman?

I think an empowered woman is someone. Who knows who she is and is living boldly in that in a way that inspires and encourages other women and lifts them up to come with her. So it's not about, I'm up here and you are down there, but let's all rise up together.

And I'm going to use my gift, and I want you to be equipped and empowered in your gifts, because together we are going to be so much stronger. Yes. I love it. The last one. I know you have your boys. I do have two boys. So imagine a scenario where everything about you has been lost due to unforeseen events.

And three generations from now, down the line, there is a letter that your future future great great granddaughter has discovered. And in this letter, you have the opportunity to impart a profound truth and empowering other women in your family line. What would the truth be? What would the message be that you would want to convey and inspire the women of the future?

Oh, my gosh. These are such great questions. Such great questions. Thank you. I think I would want to emphasize who she was created to be, who God created her to be, and who God created all of these women to be with unique gifts, with unique talents, and not to try to be like someone else, but to really step into whatever it is that makes her or them uniquely amazing.

And to just really encourage

that part of her to see herself with pride and with love and to be compassionate to herself the way she would be to others to really think about. I'm writing from this great great to this. What do you want to inspire her to think, okay, what is the legacy that I want to live and to start living it.

To live it and to be what she wants for her generations after her to be. And so I would want to point her to who she is because of who God created her to be, and then also point her forward to what the legacy she wants to leave behind.

It's never too early to start living the life that you want to be remembered for. Thanks for listening to empowering women in conversations. 

This conversation has ended, but your journey to empowerment continues. Please share with someone you know who will find this conversation helpful and inspiring. And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode until till our next empowered conversation with your host.

Licensed professional. Counselor Anita Sandoval. And remember, 
we are brave, we are strong, we are compassionate. 
We are women empowered. Go out there and claim your power.

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