Empowering Women In Conversations

Part 3: Beyond People Pleasing: Building a Conscious Relationship That Heals and Grows

• Anita Sandoval • Season 3 • Episode 24

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What was your biggest Takeaway from this Episode! I would Love to hear from you!

Part 3: Beyond People Pleasing – Building a Conscious Relationship That Heals and Grows
with Shane & Wendy Adamson

💬 Episode Summary:
In the final installment of our 3-part People Pleasing Recovery Series, we welcome back Shane and Wendy Adamson — a couple who nearly walked away from their marriage, but chose healing, growth, and conscious love instead.

Wendy, a former people pleaser and daughter of a narcissist, and Shane, a seasoned therapist with over 30 years of experience, open up about the real work behind a thriving relationship. From boundary-setting and self-advocacy to the little daily rituals that build emotional intimacy (hello, Two-Minute Miracle 💞), they share the tools that helped transform their connection from codependent to interdependent.

We talk about:

  • How trauma and ADHD impact relationships — and how to navigate them with compassion
  • What it really takes to support your partner’s empowerment (even when it feels scary)
  • How to respond when guilt and emotional manipulation show up
  • The drama triangle — and how to step into maturity and healing love
  • Why evolving as individuals strengthens the team, not weakens it
  • Creating safe space to grow separately and together

If you've ever felt lost in a relationship or afraid that growing into your authentic self would threaten your connection… this conversation is your reminder:
 ✨ Love can grow deeper as you become more of yourself.

🔗 Connect with Shane & Wendy Adamson:

🛑 This is Part 3 of the People Pleasing Recovery Series
🎧 Haven’t listened to Part 1 and 2 yet? Start here:

  • [Part 1: From People Pleaser to Empowered Woman – Wendy’s Story]
  • [Part 2: Rewriting the Narrative – The Healing Journey Within the Relationship]

🔥 CTA (Call to Action):

If this episode moved you, share it with a friend who’s learning to let go of people pleasing and step into empowered love.

📲 Stay connected:

  • Subscribe to the podcast
  • Leave a review on Apple or Spotify — it helps more women find these healing conversations
  • Join our EmpowerHer Community at www.anitasandoval.com for tools, retreats, and resources to support your journey

✨ Stay grounded. Stay growing. And keep having the conversations that set you free.

Cedric: [00:00:00] What does healthy love really look like? Not perfect, not polished, but conscious healing, and deeply connected. 

Wendy Adamson: That it feels like I'm gonna die if I do this. And then you walk into it and the fire is not as bad, and then you get through it and you're like, I can't imagine, had I not done that, you know where my life would be.

Cedric: What if instead of coming home and feeling like you're invisible, your partner paused, found you, looked you in the eyes and said, you matter to me. Tell me about your day. What would it feel like to have even two intentional minutes of real connection? Every day 

Shane Adamson: I came home, I'd go to the fridge or the TV and Wendy reminded me one day, I'm the most important thing in this house, and can you manage your morning a little better?

And when you come home, the first thing you do, find me, kiss me, check in with me about the day, and we just call it our two minute miracle. 

Wendy Adamson: So, you know, you just got to figure out. 

[00:01:00] What is gonna work for you and, and love yourself enough to say, this is what I need. And if they love you, they'll say, okay, 

Cedric: join us for a powerful and raw conversation with Shane and Wendy Adamson, a couple who almost divorced, but instead chose growth, healing, and real love.

Wendy Adamson: My 14-year-old self 14 years ago saw me now. I don't think she would believe it. So, I mean, it's kind of neat to think like. In 10 years, what, what is that version of me gonna be like? It's, it's just neat. Oh, I love, love that. 'cause you can spit and not grow. And then what? 

Cedric: If you've ever felt invisible, unappreciated, or like love meant losing yourself.

This episode is for you. This is part three of our People Pleasing Recovery series. Step beyond survival and into a relationship that heals, grows and empowers you. Stay tuned because the love you long for starts with the conversations that open your heart.

[00:02:00]Welcome to Empowering Women in Conversations podcasts, to empower and uplift women by providing a safe space for them to share their stories and experiences and encourage the strength, resilience, and power of women. If you are tired of putting others' needs before your own, leading to burnout and resentment, and you are ready to transform and create relationships that are supportive rather than draining, join us on this journey of women overcoming adversities and achieving their true empowerment.

Here's your host, a licensed professional counselor, Anita Sandoval. 

Shane Adamson: Welcome back to Empowering Women in Conversations. , I'm your host, Anita Sandoval, and today I am honored to continue a truly special three part 

[00:03:00] series with a couple whose story continues to inspire and heal Shane and Wendy. Adamson have been married over 30 years, and together they've walked the path.

Most couples only dream of one built on conscious love, on mutual growth and emotional resilience. Wendy, a former people pleaser, and if you didn't listen in, go back Part two and Daughter of a Narcissist now leads a powerful photography movement with Wendy Adamson Portraits. Photography and reclaiming their stories through the lens of authenticity.

 Shane, a licensed clinical social worker, , has been a therapist . With over three decades of experience brings deep insights into trauma, healing couples work and emotional intimacy 

 together, their proof that love doesn't have to be perfect to be powerful. 

[00:04:00]Welcome Shane and Wendy back to the show. Great to be back with you, Anita. Yeah, this is fun. Yes. I'm so excited to have you guys. This is our third and for me, the most interesting that my couples or my audience wants to resonate with because you guys are my first couple here to the show.

 What does healthy love actually look like? You two have shared over 30 years within your relationship and. From what I see, it grows stronger and stronger over the years, not through perfection.

Right? This is what I wanna tell, you know, my people pleasers who are perfectionists, you know, regular, , relationships have conflicts you guys are intentional in doing the work that is needed to maintain successful, healthy relationships and, . What has been the, some of the core values or practices that have helped you stay emotionally connected and growing together?

 , I'll start just a, a simple one, and then when do you add in whatever you feel? Yeah.

[00:05:00]  with Okay. , we do this little two minute miracle and I used to not manage my time really well, and I would lose my wallet and keys and be rushing outta the house. And I also, when 

I came home, would go to the fridge or the tv and Wendy reminded me one day, I'm the most important thing in this house, and can you manage your morning a little better?

And when you come home, the first thing you do, find me, kiss me, check in with me about the day, and we just call it our two minute miracle. 

And. We've been doing it most of our marriage, you know, sometimes it's not a full two minutes, but it is a connecting time and it's a ritual that we do. And I'll piggyback off of this, that, , one of the, my main things right now in our relationship is you have to ask for what you need because I'm not a mind reader.

You are not a mind reader knowing like, when I get upset, he doesn't know what's going on in my mind. And so, you know, I can huff and puff all I want, but , if I don't like it, it's, it's, it's really funny.

[00:06:00]  Like, so we had. We are having this podcast today, and we had, , kind of a, I had a meltdown that I, I had a certain task that I wanted to do and in my head I wanted to do it a certain way.

He needed to do it his way, I needed to do it mine. And I just emotionally, I just shut down. And, you know, I think prior, in years in our marriage before, like I really understood all this, I. I would just fly, fly off the handle, get mad at him, just stop everything. And you know, as, as our marriage has matured and we have matured more, and I mean, I'm, I'm 55, he's 57.

Seven. Yeah, there's just more, there's maturity in it. But, you know, even watching our, , our kids who are in their twenties, , they have, , they almost seem like they have more maturity than we had. 

[00:07:00] So, , there, there is a sense of. You know, knowing what the responsible, , like attitude is and to sit back and just take a second to regroup and really ask yourself like, is there something that I did wrong in this?

Is there something he did wrong in this? And then just sit in that for a second and. Talk to him. So I said I was really upset, and I know that you think it's silly that I broke down, but I wanted to bring this wheelbarrow and you wanted to bring another one. I mean, it's just such a silly, silly thing. But he said, you know, I'm really sorry that that happened.

So I, I think previous years in our marriage. I didn't even know what validation meant. Mm-hmm. And for, for me to say, I am upset.

[00:08:00]  And for Shane to come in and say, I'm sorry that you're upset, that's hard. And I can say, I am sorry that I flew off the handle. That would be hard for you. Just, just that maturity in it made, made us just hug and say, we're sorry.

But I think in previous years that would never happen. Like, or, or else we would be silent treatment, right? For, you know, a half a day or a day or two. But we can like, get through these within an hour and get reconnected. Most, most of them, 15, 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes even shorter. , just depends on the level of the conflict.

Oh, and another thing came in like when you first said, , oh, Shane and Wendy we're gonna interview you of what a really good relationship looks like. I'm like, okay, there's no such thing as perfection. And I can see, like me listening to that. Podcast of like 20 years ago. 

[00:09:00] I'd be like, , I'm not even gonna listen to it because I can't even imagine that.

But I mean, we're here right now that we're human. Yeah. We are real people. I've gone through a lot of narcissistic abuse. I have, I have, , like I have ADHD, which they would say comes from my childhood trauma. , and you know, there's a lot of things that come with that, that I feel broken and I feel like I, I'm scared of anger more than the average person.

And I, I, yeah, I, I cower and I, you know, do all the things that we were conditioned to learn from our parents that were. Toxic or not healthy, we learned from them. So, you know, , I'm always trying every single day and we've had circumstances in our marriage that had pushed us to grow and change and become better people.

And I think, , like one of a, a, a thing that I love so much is I used to hide and run away from anything that would hurt. 

[00:10:00] Yeah. And I never wanted to hurt or feel pain. It's like I felt enough, I don't want anymore. Yeah. But the more that I, I find that I walk in the fire, it's not as. Bad. You know, I, I love how they say fear is false evidence appearing real.

I love that, that it feels like I'm gonna die if I do this. And then you walk into it and the fire is not as bad, and then you get through it and you're like. I can't imagine, had I not done that, you know where my life would be. So it's like, I, I like, I, I'm starting to embrace the fire and it's like if I have fear, yeah.

Oh, goodie, I'm gonna grow. Yeah. It's like a mind, mind shift. Yes. I love that. , I love hearing what you're saying because I know Shane was, you know, going in, yeah, we're gonna have conflicts. 

[00:11:00] We used to do the silent treatment, but we value time, quality time. And he made sure to listen and validate what you needed and gave that time for each other.

And then Wendy, you came in saying, you know what? I have a past and I, because of it, I was. Program conditioned a certain way, and that came into the relationship. And one of them is the people pleasing. And we're not even talking about the whole ADHD 'cause I know I have that in the, in my marriage. And it's very interesting, you know, when I lose my keys, I used to have a game called, let's see how many times Anita loses her phone.

 Not until I realized the gravity of what A DHD is. He right away said, you know what? I'm on top of. It gave me apple air tags on everything just so I could check, and very supportive. So I see how, you know, people pleasing A DHD trauma can bring into the marriage and on how Shane's willing to see you for who you are.

[00:12:00] And that is what it is. Imperfectly perfect, but perfect just as you are. And you know, working around with what is, but in a loving way, which is unconditional. It's really neat. Yeah, very neat. Yeah. And I know you spoke of people pleasing what were the early signs in your marriage that helped you realize this was a pattern within the marriage?

Not only within yourself or within the relationship with your mother, but how it just kind of went into the marriage, and how did Shane respond to this type of realization? Oh boy. Oh boy. I, I do think that we were born, raised with kind of like traditional roles that. The husband be like the provider.

She's the nurturer. And she watched her mom kind of cater to her dad, and I think for many years she did that. And then I was wired to do that. 

[00:13:00] Yeah, even life. When she was getting me a drink of water, I was like, wait a second, Shane, you have two legs. Like you can go get your own drink of water. But this was like a year ago.

Yeah. And we are almost on 33 years of marriage. So I like a lot of this. We're just putting the pieces together. Yeah. That's one layer of it is it caught blended in with the traditional roles thing. But then, , the other nuanced thing. And this isn't directly related to people pleasing, but my wounds are neglect and abandonment.

Mm-hmm. So I'm a little needy, and so I can invite myself to some of her events and she's like, oh great, I'd love to be with you. But then once I'm there, she's like, wait a second, I just wanna be with my friends. And now you're like the third wheel. And so those events, some.

Difficulties in the last couple years where she has to sit with herself and say, do I really want Shane to come on this or not? And I need to respect the space that if it needs to be whether it be a photography conference or a girl's. 

[00:14:00] Getaway. I can just be okay with that and hold myself together and not pout and say, that's okay.

She deserved that. But this is growing in us right now. Like we're developing these new muscles. I think like the people pleasing was so wired in. I think my mom was so fearful of losing my father, , that she just, people pleads like crazy to keep him.

Yeah. Then, so I just learned to do that and really in that, in that the people pleasing is so I don't have to deal with the anger. And it was the same thing in my family growing up. If I'm people pleasing, then I get the validation and the love I need in my marriage. It's my husband's happy with me and he's not gonna be angry at me.

So it's like all these things that we avoid from our childhood fears. Yeah. And so now that I'm acknowledging the people pleasing and I'm finally stepping back and saying, I think you should get your own water is hard for me because I'm so used to, oh, let me go get it. 

[00:15:00] Oh, let me do this, let me do that.

You know, I'll fix all the problems. And now I'm like. Hmm. I think you should fix it. I mean, it's, it's liberating. Oh, I love that. And it, it's nice for, for Shane to go to kind of hold his part in it and say, you know, I, I can see where I was wrong on that. And, and this, this whole thing with him having abandonment wounds.

I think you can get so caught up in your own wounds like. My mom was our narcissistic, and I have all these issues, but I need to realize. He didn't have a narcissistic parent, but he dealt with abandonment. 'cause his parents were like 18 when they had him. Wow. So they were just kids themselves trying to deal with it all.

 And I, I have to go, there's, there's things with that and it's not always just about me. 

[00:16:00] So it's this give and take. Now I think it's, it's more of a maturity of our relationship and I hear a lot of marriages that it just gets too hard. The conflict is too much that you don't have the bandwidth to tackle it.

 In the beginning he'll say, tell me about your love story. Yeah. It's it that's so important. 'cause we, we forget like what, what our love story was and why, why we're here and why we wanna push forward.

' cause I will tell you that Shane and I almost got divorced and we were. Three days from signing papers. Wow. Like, had gone through everything and we reconciled three days before, and it's like, you know, it's, it's gonna be easier with our kids. There's problems, but we still love each other. And we just decided to plow through and just, , work it out.

[00:17:00] it's, it's been good. Nothing's perfect. I totally believe in healthy conflicts, and I love how you said that. You know what? I acknowledge my, , my parts of self that I'm working on, and they're acknowledging their parts of work that they're working on, and together we try to figure it out by finding our healthy selves to work on ourselves.

But to go into the parts of. Each other within the relationship for both of you, how does that look like? How do you acknowledge each other's wounds, but still allow the space for each other to work on them and then also work on the relationship, like how to separate it and not give it to the other person?

Mm-hmm. I like our spiritual time in the morning, but. , one thing that's very unique is we have a mixed faith marriage, and she just commented that in the morning, my morning ritual is  reading like scriptures or uplifting talks. 

[00:18:00] Hers is meditation and sometimes she does some tarot cards and. But we honor and respect each other spiritual path.

And sometimes I'll say, oh, there's an amazing story I wanna share with you, and I'll share something from my readings and she will share something from hers. And we're careful and sensitive knowing we need to be careful 'cause we have different spiritual paths, but we have enough common values. So I think that's a sign of maturity, is that you have some common values and you support each other.

And sometimes I need to bend her way and sometimes she bends my way. But that just comes with like maturity and not being any power struggles over things. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love how you said that power struggles, many women here in the audience listening in, they're trying to unlearn , the people pleasing, but really relearn new behaviors while still navigating a partnership, and so they're still people pleasers, they're entering a relationship.

[00:19:00] What did it look like for you to support Wendy's empowerment without feeling threatened by it? That's a question for me. , I, I would say that he, you have felt a bit threatened by it. I, I think as I am finding my. My, I'm going through like individuation, like trying to find my own identity, , and me people pleasing all the time.

For a, for an a spouse, that's a, that's a really kind of neat thing for them to get a hundred percent of the person. Yeah. And for me to be pulling back and saying, I wanna start my own business. I wanna empower other women. I'm not around all the time and. I wanna be by myself and I wanna do things on my own.

I mean, I love Disneyland. I've even like gone by myself. I love that. Just to take pictures of Disneyland, like the doorknobs that no one would ever let me do.

[00:20:00]  So I mean, it's, I think it's hard for you, like, yeah. , yeah, I think that it is difficult when we've had kind of maybe a really. Close relationship and maybe sometimes it was enmeshed and unhealthy, or they might call it codependent.

And as she tries to just exert her independence, I have to just trust that this is her personal growth journey. And you know, I can speak up, if she was doing three weekends in a row of photography conferences, I could say, Hey, . I attend one of these, and in the evenings we could hang out, or maybe you could do two of the three instead of three.

She would probably say, yeah, I, maybe I am overscheduled here. And, and sometimes I do the same thing where I, I get really in my over-function mode and I, I give my work my best efforts, and then she gets the leftover energy.

 [00:21:00] And so. Each week you're, we're just kind of evaluating our energy level, and if we're having work and home life balance, and it just takes practice, it's a give and take.

Yeah. I can't be all selfish and go, I know this is my individuation time and I'm gonna do what I want and, and see you wouldn't wanna be you, you know? Yeah. , I'm not gonna do that. So, yeah. It's, it's, it's a give and take. It's a finding the balance. Yeah, we've got two daughters that are very, like, very independent, like feminist independence and, , I know that they don't like it.

They would rather, mom, you need to be independent by yourself and not always with dad. and Shane would say it's like a garden and you have to water it. And if it has weeds in it, you've gotta pull out the weeds. And if you just say, , if you're selfish and you're just gonna do it your way, you, you're gonna choke your marriage.

Mm-hmm. So, and, and the, the weeds will eventually take over and you, you won't have any anything. In common anymore. 

[00:22:00] So I think that's important. I love that. , you both really explained it perfectly, 

so you have codependent. Independent and interdependent. Where you're learning who you are yourself, but you also acknowledge that we are also made to emotionally connect with others, and so it's a need, not a want, but you're connecting for you, but also helping others as well.

So for you both, you're helping each other for the value of your team. ' cause I always like to call a marriage. What is your team name? You know, and it's Madison. Yes. There you go. Yeah. And so it's for your, your team or your marriage. And so you're not totally independent because you, you chose, made a vow to not do so, but you're not codependent doing everything for the others.

You are mindful and are interdependent, which is. Perfectly said and very healthy. I would say the majority of our marriage, we were more on the co codependent side. And I would say probably in the last four years we've started coming out of that to the interdependence. 

[00:23:00] Yeah. It's, I think hopefully it's rubbing off on our kids too, as we're learning all this.

You know, as kids, we used to, before the kids would go to school, we'd say, okay, every, everybody put your hands in the center. And we'd, we'd twist all our hands together and we'd go, 1, 2, 3, go, Adamson's and we'd go up to school and yeah, I just, it's, it's a family unit and I'm so glad that we, I didn't give up, we didn't give up to get divorced because our, our kids.

 We fight to keep all of us together. Yeah. They look at us for examples I know for my children, my husband will give me a hug or, , and my daughter will be like, oh, why are you hugging mommy?

And he's like, because I love her. And then he'll gimme a kiss. Oh, you're giving her a kiss. He's like, well, that's what love is. And I was like, yes. And I go, but of course he needs to ask for permission 'cause I know they're watching and I want them to know, not without my permission. 

[00:24:00] Just because someone loves you doesn't mean that you just do.

So, . I it's always a life's lesson, let me tell you. I remember the time when I started becoming empowered many, many years ago and noticed the whole people pleasing. When I started speaking up, yes, it's scary as you mentioned, but I said I'm gonna do it anyways 'cause I'm over it.

I'm done. Nothing good. Came out of being happy, , with people pleasing. And I remember my husband going, who are you? And I'm like, this is me. I was just too scared , just people pleasing, doing whatever anybody ever wanted. But this is me. He's like, okay, , I just need to get used to what's happening here.

There's time to just adapt and change. 'cause we're always growing, learning and changing and, yeah. I'm just gonna use the example, , , I, I started eating healthier and then I used to never like salsa. , 'cause it's spicy but then over the years with eating healthy, not eating as much sugar, I started to kind of , liking salsa.

[00:25:00] Well, one time he goes over and he, he's like, no, mom, don't give her any salsa. He tells my mother-in-law and he's like, because she doesn't like salsa. And I'm like, who are you to tell me what I like and do not like? And do you see my thoughts? Do you feel my feelings?

Do you taste my taste buds? And he's like, oh, this again. And he's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. ' , it's good to have a prompt. He knows that that's when he stepped over my boundary and, , he gave it to me and I'm like, oh, this is really good. He's like, since when did you like salsa?

And I'm like, well, you know, if you allowed me this. Space to ask. I would've told you. It's a thing that I started, you know, venturing into. And I like the salsa now. And he's like, oh wow, okay. I didn't know that. And so in the marriage becoming empowered, resilient, authentic, growing and changing, it's always happening.

So this whole, I know you like the back of my hand, that's not actually a good thing because then you're really not knowing who they are and evolving into yeah, that's, it's really interesting. 

[00:26:00] Another thing that came up as you were talking is, being like getting over our people pleasing in our marriages and our families is a safe place because, , as an entrepreneur, I'm starting to venture out and it's, it's scary to be.

To be able to hold your boundaries and not be people pleasing in the public. . I think it's really. Also important to realize that in, in the family dynamic, it's such a safe place. Yeah. That, that no one's there to hurt you, but you can gain those skills that you're going to need to bring out into the world.

Yeah. So I love that. Talking about boundaries with you and Shane , being able to be. Safe and vulnerable around him to set those boundaries. What were some boundaries that you set in that changed the dynamic in the relationship? . I will tell you, , I. In my photography career, this has been kind of new that last year, , there was a big conference that I went to Las Vegas and Shane wanted to come with me.

[00:27:00] So my, my people pleasing and boundaries, I. Were like all over the place. Like, so Shane came, wanted to be with me. My friends wanted me to go to classes. I was volunteering and I was like a ping pong ball, trying to make Shane happy, trying to make everybody happy. Everyone was like, Shane has a leash around your neck.

And I, it, it was very uncomfortable and I didn't realize , that I had to create a boundary there. Okay. Okay. So, you know, the next one he said, can I come? Which was not too long ago. And I said, yes, but I need for you not to be, you need to allow me to be in classes. You can do your thing. I don't wanna feel guilty of what you're doing.

And that didn't work out even that well. So now I'm going to another conference and I'm like, I don't want you there. 

[00:28:00] Yeah. And it's not that I don't love you, but I realize that I am. I can't do what I need to do with you there. 

Cedric: So, yeah, you know, you just got to figure out what is gonna work for you and, and love yourself enough to say, this is what I need.

And if they love you, they'll say, okay. 

Shane Adamson: I love that. I love that. Right, right. Yeah. I mean he, in both examples there were great because the first example you used, you talk about the value of family, and both of you valued family, and that's, that was your common goal., you mentioned the weed story, if you don't really work on it, it gets lost.

Mm-hmm. And it just so happened that with your daughter going through what she was going through, it really helped you band together as the family and work it out and Yeah. Yeah. It. Keeping her alive was the number one priority. I love that. I love that story. Yeah. And even in your second one, because the dynamic, a lot of people assume, I'm gonna set the boundary and that's it.

[00:29:00] But you don't know what boundary it is because things happen. You didn't know you needed a boundary going to Vegas and you're like, okay, well let's try this boundary. And people assume if I do this boundary, it's gonna work flawlessly, not all the time. You both navigated through that first boundary and then you're like, yeah, it's.

Still not going to work until finally this, , last time you're gonna try to work the nothing and see how that works. Like it's a work in progress when it comes to the boundaries. Yeah, it's like, it's like perfecting anything or a recipe or cooking. You know it's gonna change every time you do it and get better.

Yeah. So it's better to just plow in and do what you need to do and if it doesn't work you, you can always shift. Yeah. My kids, always my daughter and I would talk and she's like, mom, I'm so scared, like launching into college. What if I do something wrong? And I said, it's okay because you, you go one way and if it doesn't work, you just pivot.

[00:30:00] And then you go that way. And if it doesn't work, you just pivot. It's the same thing, but at least you're standing up for yourself and saying, I really need this. I do wanna add in, , 'cause I know you used that example this morning when things change and you had to pivot and adapt.

 We pay attention to our bodies, especially people pleasers. One of the common negative beliefs is I'm in control. And so we tend to micromanage things, the whole perfectionism. And once we're aware of that part. Then of course, let's add an A.D.H.D whenever there's anything happening, there's a lag in the emotional regulation.

So for me, I have a, I'll adapt and pivot maybe one or two things within the day, but when it's more than two. And it's just like, oh my God, my body will react. And I'm like, okay, I'm done for the day. My husband already knows that there's only so much I can pivot. And he allows me the space to just be like, I'm gonna go to sleep, take a cold shower and I'll just wait for tomorrow.

[00:31:00] And then, you know, we make it work. Whatever adapting thing is because yeah, it's, it's hard, you know, change is hard and, and we normally try to do it little by little 'cause. We tend to avoid. Even if there's some adapting and things change and you lose your emotional regulation, that's okay.

We just, you know, regulate and keep pivoting and find our new normal. There was actually a question I wanted to ask Shane. So, we're, we're talking healthy relationships, but I do wanna venture a little bit into the toxic relationship because I know that most of my people pleasers that are listening in.

Have a little bit more of that, and I know we wanna balance it off. One of the things that the unhealthy partners tend to do is emotionally manipulate by guilting or shaming. And so I know that, that, Wendy, you mentioned family, . Just because we're related doesn't mean that they're healthy at times.

And I, I speak for my own side of my relatives 'cause they're not family. 

[00:32:00] So for those that don't have that, or let's say their partner isn't as understanding as Shane, , what would you say, Shane, to the audience or to the women who are people pleasers when their partner, instead of saying, Hey, I'm. Not gonna take you with me.

And they tend to emotionally guilt or want them to take over that baggage. Let's say the abandonment issue. Say, well, you're leaving me, or you're doing this, or not working through that and giving them shame. What is your best advice for that? That's a good one. Mm-hmm. Have you have any of your listeners learned of the drama triangle before?

No. , basically. The drama triangle is, there's three sides to it, and the victim role is a powerful role. And you can use manipulative tactic, shaming tactics from this victim role. And you're basically saying, someone rescue me. Then there's another role, which is the persecutor. And the persecutor is kind of like the boss.

[00:33:00] They're right. And they're like, you need to do this because this is the right thing to do. . The third one the rescuer. Mm-hmm. Those are the people that are, the people pleasers that, that, that just kind of try to make everyone happy.

But all three of those roles are less mature and they, and you have to be able to check your body. And if a husband is pouting and saying, this isn't fair, you need to bring me. You need to, you might need to go into the other room, gather your thoughts and circle back and say, I just feel strongly that you're gonna be okay.

I'm welcome to check in with you. You know, I can, sure. Battling loneliness would be hard, but I don't want you to guilt or shame me into something you want. Mm-hmm. I need to follow my heart here. And my heart says I need to go to this conference for these reasons. And it's not a couple weekend, it's a personal development weekend.

Oh. And then I think the rescuer would be, the friend would say, but the husband, you need to let her go. 

[00:34:00] Oh yeah. Well, sometimes that would be the rescuer. Yeah. Okay. Sometimes three people involved in the drama triangle, and I'll give an example on a Saturday weekend, me being on all three roles, the house is a wreck.

Nobody's done their chores, and I've worked 50 hours. I come in first as the persecutor. How lazy are you guys? I can't believe you guys have been sitting and just leaving cereal bowls and cans all over the house, and then the kids run over to mom and they're like dad's in one of those moods again. So they're being the victims of dad's anger.

And then Wendy's the rescuer like. Shane. Now a more mature way for me to handle that is like to get Wendy on the side and say, okay, instead of me going in with that tone, let's go in as a team. Yeah. And say, Hey, we've all been irresponsible this week, and let the house, let's set a timer and we can have a snack retreat if we all work together for 45 minutes.

[00:35:00] Like that's a better way. Because I could take on the victim too and say, well. You are never doing the dishes and I'm always having to do that. So everyone's, it gets, everyone is bouncing all over the place. I love that. In those three roles. And they're all immature and manipulative. 

, how do you put a wedge so that it doesn't finish the cycle when it begins? . How do you put that wedge so it could like break that triumphal? I would just say functional adults. Yeah. , the most mature response is gonna get you off the drama triangle.

Immature responses are manipulative, underhanded, shaming. Okay. They're, they're more immature and they work on people, and that's why we keep doing 'em. Unless you have a mature person that suddenly says, that didn't feel right the way that you, you know, that comment or that thing felt like it was underhanded or manipulative, and so you have to.

Of your admit yourself, you have to listen to your body. 'cause if your body is dysregulated and then it's telling you something's wrong. 

[00:36:00] Okay. Yeah. , what are some statements or phrases that would help that? What is the most responsible thing to do in this situation? Okay. Or I'm feeling a lot of emotions right now about this, and so can we take a time out, can we take a time out?

I that, so I love that kind of get some wisdom and clarity on approaching this in a mature way and not in a dramatic way. And so sometimes it requires a timeout and, and so that you can circle back when you really. Are more like grounded. You're not in this reactive mindset. You just reminded me last week I'm trying to work on doing, adding a second camera and , my husband's the IT guy and I'm like, do this for me, right?

, I get frustrated with technology and, I don't know what had happened and. Some, or maybe something turned off and he raises his voice. Like whenever he doesn't know something, it's like, oh, I don't know. And I'm like, okay, , it seems that you're frustrated, so I'm gonna walk away.

[00:37:00] And, and then he's like, but I need you here. I, and I see that 'cause you're wanting for me to be there to show you. However, what I don't need is this frustration. But no. So if I'm more than happy to be here, as long as this frustration doesn't go to me, 'cause that belongs to you. So what do you wanna do?

Yeah. And, and, and then he just. You know, went ahead and became him. So it is just like redirecting the behavior when I said, oh, okay, you're raising your voice and it seems you're flustered, so I'm gonna be, and it was just like, wow, I'm so proud of myself. You know, I, I rarely don't, I just either walk away and be like, oh, later, you know?

But this time I was like, oh, I'm not taking this on. This isn't mine to take on. You can have that back and, , let me know when you're done with it so I can come back. , I think that knowledge is power and the more, the more that you're doing. Like I know I used to hear people say. 

[00:38:00] You're not healthy and you need to like do your work.

And I never really understood that. Like what, what does it mean to do your work? But the more that you're reading, the more that you're listening to podcasts. I mean, just every little thing starts adding and that is the work. And you'll start little things. You'll start putting two and two together and they just get stronger and stronger the more that you, you do.

And I was talking to someone yesterday and I was telling him my story and he, he came from similar background as me and said, I want you to know, Wendy, that your work is never over. And I feel like, you know, I've gone through 14 year journey and I have to realize, and it will never end and, and I can't say I've arrived.

Even if I have a pretty good marriage, it can be better. And so I think we always, knowledge is power and just keep going. 

[00:39:00] Yeah, but isn't that fun though? I always tell people to be curious about your mission, you know? Oh, it gets better and better. It's so exciting. Yes, it's infinite possibilities of just getting to know each other, and it's a journey, not a destination.

It's just enjoying that journey. So I love that. 

Paula: If my 14-year-old, , self 14 years ago saw me now. I don't think she would believe it. So, I mean, it's kind of neat to think like, in 10 years, what, what is that version of me gonna be like? It's, it's just neat. Oh, I love that. Because you sit and not grow and then what 

Shane Adamson: Yeah, definitely. Talking about understanding trauma and how did understanding each other's trauma and your willingness to do the work within yourself. Shift your relationship into one that actually heals rather than repeats the past. That's good. You know, , because we both did similar trauma intensives.

Okay. We did one called Finding Peace and another one called Green Shoe, which was Family of Origin Trauma. 

[00:40:00] Okay. We both kind of have that shared history of healing and so like. I can say something like, oh, I feel the drama triangle coming on. Or I, she'll say, were you being manipulative right there? We geek out

 , and sometimes she's right. I'm like, yeah, I think I was trying to get you to do this thing and I should have just asked for it instead of like, did it in an underhanded way. You know what I mean? And so I think. Trauma is very complex and we all have our individual journey of healing. And yeah, some people love EMDR, some people love psychodrama or experiential, but you have your path and if you're vulnerable you can share with each other.

That just triggered me, and you can say on a scale of one to 10, how much you know, and then if it was 7, 8, 9, then you're like, oh, we probably need to. Take a break or what do you need right now? 

[00:41:00] And so you just handle each other with a little more sensitivity. Yeah. , when, when you know that each of us have our own trauma wounds.

 You kind of go slower and more carefully with each other. You're being considerate. It's an interesting journey. Being married to a therapist though, you know, it's, it, I got a little lucky there, so I'm sorry to the listeners here, it's, it's got its good points, but it has its bad points that he's always like in the beginning, agree.

He was always like. He knew all and we knew nothing. , we had a therapist call me out in, during that season of where the. We were helping our daughter over, you know, get coping skills for her depression and suicidal thinking. And that was a two year journey 

of family therapy and, and that therapist, I needed to be called out that I have work to do. I'm not right all the time. And so I. Yeah. It's been a journey. A journey. 

[00:42:00] Oh yeah. I love it. I think it's a journey. Yeah. It's, it's, and you talked about the retreats. What do these retreats mean in terms of relationships and helping people pleasers step into that power?

So think of trauma, unresolved trauma or go is going to make you more insecure, more anxious. You're going to get triggered more quickly, so you won't be able to do relationships as well, because you're always like either withdrawing or shutting down, or you're coming in and protesting really loudly and aggressively, and then your partner shuts down.

But as you do your trauma work. You can kind of regulate yourself in a way where you can approach each other more carefully and respectfully, and then you're, you're enjoying more of the love story instead of that drama triangle that we talked about where there's just someone's, the victim, someone. 

[00:43:00] Is the cause of that and there's someone rescuing somebody.

I mean, it's just more or less mature. Yeah. And, and when you do the trauma work, you can have more mature love because you don't get into all these little drama, , situations as much. The retreats are there for individuals or there for couples. Oh, the Green Shoe. , green shoe's individual.

, we've had couples come to finding peace, but most people come individually. Okay. But, , it, you, you can do either or with finding peace couples or as an individual. Then what was your couples one called? Oh, holding Tide is a couples weekend workshop. That's a good one. It's not trauma oriented. It's more of just.

Conversations, bonding as a couple and figuring out what's getting in the way of your connection, basically. Oh, I love that. Because even then, let's say you don't even know you're a people pleaser. You kind of have an idea, or even the males part, you don't know that you're. Confining them as a people pleaser and not empowering them to support them.

 [00:44:00] That retreat could actually help each other out to get to know one another, and the therapists walk around and help you so they can see the dynamics. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yes. Make sure you let me know when your next retreat is. The retreats. I could put it in there for them in case anyone's interested.

Thank you. , normally I usually like to wrap each episode by asking my guest two powerful reflection questions. But today's the first, because, I had asked you in part one and part two, so I've had to, I. , pivot and adapt and switch it up a bit. Thanks to you both. I've created a new version of these questions tailored for couples doing the conscious work of love, healing, and growth together.

And I know our audience is going to love hearing your answers. I love for each of you to answer through your own perspectives as a couple. I want them to know that. You guys have your own perspective, your own lens, and it's not right or wrong, it just is. 

[00:45:00] So they could see the heart of your relationship and your reflections, within the relationship and how you guys really validate each other.

I love that. I want them to see that. , question number one, together, within your own perspectives, how would you define an empowered, authentic relationship you wanna go? Okay. Okay. I would say an empowered relationship is balanced in that you have a solid sense of yourself and who you are, and you know your needs.

You also value bonding with your partner, but you're, you're trying to be a balance of those two things. There's times to bond and connect, but there's also times to be with yourself, and if I get too outta whack with independence. Then I'm neglecting their marriage garden and weeds are going to come in there.

But if I'm, if I'm too focused on kind of like bonding and cuddling all the time, I smother her and then it's, it's kind of like enmeshed and it doesn't feel like love. 

[00:46:00] It feels like smothering. Yeah. Instead of loving. And so there is a fine balance of bonding and loving and having personal. Time and that balance is, every couple needs to figure that out.

I love that. Yes. I would say in our, in our beginning marriage, I was so interested in and enthralled with the concept of balance, and it is, it's so, it's so important. It, it's so funny also hearing his answer because it's what we do together as a couple, so it's. , we are trying to have that interdependence and I would say that that is my new, the new thing that I'm grasping with everything I, I, I have, because of being a people pleaser for so long and giving up my sense of self to my mother, to my husband, to my kids, that, ,

[00:47:00]  I am, I'm just fiercely wanting to find my own independence and starting up my own business and.

You know, empowering other women and taking care of myself and saying it's okay. And with that, to carry the balance to, make sure that my marriage is intact and that I am spending enough time with him. But there, there's that balance. , and I would say. Because I'm an empty nester and my kids are gone.

I'm a gonna be a little bit more on the me side. Yeah. Oh, I, yeah. Because I've never had it Yeah. Of being like catering to my mom and, and everyone else. It's, this is a neat time for me to say, wow, I get to self care. Wow. I get to build a business. Wow. It's, it's me. Yeah. I love that. And to be, and to be I'm supported by him.

Yeah. Saying. Good job, even when he's pouting or crying that he wants to be with me. And it's that part of him that he's working on, but that healthy part is the one supporting you.

[00:48:00]  So seeing those two different sides and not meshing. Yeah, I love that. It's the balance. Yes. . Question number two.

Now imagine this due. To some unforeseen event happening. Natural disaster. Everything in your home was lost except for one item, something that represents the strength, depth, and soul of your marriage and symbol of your relationship. What would that one item be and why?

Do you have anything? Yes, I. Some weird thing. We have, , , these printer drawers that are old vintage that they used to put the letters in, , when they would do prints on newspapers. So a friend of mine had these, these drawers and I have two of them on my wall right now.

[00:49:00] But every time we have an impactful experience of our marriage, we put some kind of memorabilia in the little spaces and they're all filled to where like everything to when we first met, to, you know, our couple getaways. Yeah. Old, yeah. Old driver's licenses or my dad's driver's license. , and he passed away 20 years ago.

It's just like all these memories, I, I would love to have that. Like, just, it's our, it's our love story and on the wall. Oh, I love that you, Shane. Yeah. You know, . I'm a scrapbooker and I have these little family books. There's too many of them. Like I had one for each year. So in our closet, every time the kids won an award, I would put it in their little book, and at the end of the year, we just kind of celebrate.

[00:50:00] I. And, maybe I would try to grab as many of those because it's kind of our family story. 'cause we've only been empty nesters now for a year. A year. Yeah. So a half a year of, of our 33 year marriage, we've been raising kids until just this last year. Wow. And so those, those are some significant memories that were memorable.

So I love that your love story and your family. That you created family because of your love story, right? Yeah, but if I had to have one thing, it would be him.

I put things on the wall. Yes. Yeah. That's too funny. Oh my goodness. Oh, where can my audience connect with you? Find you. So if you googled Shane Adamson, you'll find Center for Marriage and Family. Yeah, Anita was a guest on my show. You'll have to come listen. , that's helpful for loving relationships and there is a finding peace retreat coming up.

[00:51:00] So you could Google Finding Peace Retreat with Troy Love and Shane Adamson. Love that. And sometimes we do these hold me tights, which is couples weekend workshops. But yeah, I do do some, some telehealth as well. So. , Shane Adamson, or Center for Marriage and Family Counseling in Frisco, Texas. Love that.

And I'm Wendy Adamson and I own Wendy Adamson Portraits and I, , empower women through portraiture. And you can find me under Wendy Adamson portrait Everywhere. I love that Instagram and YouTube. It's all the same name. Yes. Shane and Wendy, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for sharing your story, your insights, your truth with us.

This episode, like Your Marriage is beautiful example of what's possible, that love is rooted in freedom, not fear. And to all of you listening, may this conversation plant a seed of hope. Not weeds and possibility in your own journey toward empowered authentic love and relationships. And until next time, stay grounded, stay growing, and keep having the conversations that let you free from people pleasing and into authentic relationships.

[00:52:00] until our next conversation, be well and stay safe. 

Thanks for listening to Empowering Women in Conversations. This conversation has ended, but your journey to empowerment continues. Please share with someone you know who will find this conversation helpful and inspiring. And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until our next Empowered Conversation with your host, licensed professional counselor, Anita Sandoval, and remember.

We are brave, we are strong, we are compassionate. We are women empowered. Go out there and claim your power.

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