Empowering Women In Conversations

Stop Healing Wrong: Why Mindfulness, Not Hustle, Ends Toxic Cycles — with Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat

• Anita Sandoval • Season 3 • Episode 30

Share episode

What was your biggest Takeaway from this Episode! I would Love to hear from you!

STOP HEALING WRONG: Why Mindfulness, Not Hustle, Ends Toxic Cycles with      Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat

If you’ve been trying to heal by doing more—reading more, achieving more, fixing more—this episode will feel like a breath of truth.
Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat, Registered Psychologist, Certified Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) Teacher, and Founder of the Center for Mindfulness Canada, joins Anita Sandoval to unravel one of the biggest misconceptions in healing: you can’t hustle your way out of pain.

Together they explore how mindfulness invites you to slow down, reconnect to your body, and end the toxic cycles of people-pleasing, burnout, and emotional self-abandonment.

🪞 In This Episode You’ll Learn:

📍 Why “doing more” can actually deepen emotional burnout
 📍 How mindfulness helps you notice when old people-pleasing patterns return
 📍 The power of non-judgmental awareness and self-compassion
 📍 Why curiosity is a superpower in your healing journey
📍 How to tell when you’re safe to trust again after trauma
📍 Practical tools to ground yourself when emotions feel overwhelming

🧘‍♂️ Connect With Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat:

🌐 Website → centreformindfulness.ca

🌐 Personal Site → drkasimalmashat.com

📱 Instagram → @dr.kasimalmashat

✨ Ready to take the next step?
Join the EmpowerHer Women’s Community for exclusive support, mindfulness resources, and connection:
👉 www.anitasandoval.com

🌿 Coming Soon: The 12-Step People Pleasing Recovery Program — designed for women who are done fixing everyone else and are ready to reclaim their power.

💖 Need quick relief?
Start with the 5-Day Relief Program — your gentle reintroduction to calm, clarity, and confidence.

[00:00:00] You Keep Fixing Everyone.....But who.. Fixes... You? 

[00:00:02] Speaker: Annoyed. Now I'm gonna sit. I'm gonna close my eyes. I'm gonna be calm. That's actually not meditation. Meditation. Mindfulness is not, not now. I gotta turn myself to be calm. You're not trying to do anything. You're not even trying to relax. You're just being present. 

[00:00:18] Speaker 2: So many women are stuck in toxic cycles of doing more, fixing, more hustling to heal.

[00:00:24] You've been surviving your healing like it's another job. What if peace comes when you stop trying so hard? Stop healing wrong. Why mindfulness not hustle ends? Toxic cycles? Listen in now at empowering Women in conversations.

[00:00:38] 

[00:01:27] Anita Sandoval: . , Today I am honored to welcome a very special guest, someone who. Whose work deeply resonates with our mission here, Dr.

[00:01:34] Kasim Al-Mashat is a registered psychologist, a certified mindfulness based stress reduction teacher, and the founder of the Center for Mindfulness Canada. His journey from personal healing to silent retreat to global mindfulness leadership is inspiring and I'm so excited. For you to hear from him today.

[00:01:59] [00:02:00] Dr. Al-Mashat, welcome to the show. Thank you so much and for that wonderful introduction, it's always odd hearing someone talk about you. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I know I've shared a little bit of your background and I was looking at your website and oh my gosh. As I mentioned earlier, I don't know where you find the time, you're just so well-rounded.

[00:02:21] I really would love our listeners to hear from you directly on how you describe who you are, the work you do. Mm. Thank you so much. I, I guess, my day job, so to speak, is, you know, I'm in private practice as a psychologist, teach meditation, but ultimately I just see myself just, just another human being who's trying to do my best in healing in my own journey and supporting others and creating change.

[00:02:50] Like, that's what excites me is change. You know, we're, we're in a business of. Change. I love that because who hasn't felt stuck in their [00:03:00] life? Who hasn't felt like, I don't know if anything's gonna get better? And then we kind of find a way and that that excites me. That excites me. Wow. I love that.

[00:03:09] And I know you've spoken about how. Personal life challenges brought you into counseling for the first time. Yeah. Many of our listeners are women who have reached their breaking point, burnout in relationships. How did that shape the path you're on now in reference to going into counseling? Oh, what a great question.

[00:03:31] You know, it, it was really bad for me. I was, it was in my teen years and, you know, I experienced some traumatic events and, it was very impactful. Like, it, it shook my sense of world. It shook my sense, of safety in the world. And, I mean, I won't go into the details, but I ended up in a hospital because of this traumatic event.

[00:03:50] Right. So it was, something, I, I didn't think there's a way out and it really led me to isolate myself. Like, just feeling [00:04:00] depressed, just unhappy. And this is a teen, this is like a little too too early, right? Yeah, yeah. but what really started my journey is doing my own counseling work.

[00:04:10] And, I remember I was very skeptical of counseling and therapy and I thought, why would I go and talk to a stranger? Like, why would I want, I don't want to, like, they don't know me. And so I had, obviously I was a teen. Yeah. but I know many people, you know, even adults are, I'm not sure is it safe to go talk to someone?

[00:04:32] So anyway, that started and, and I experienced something in therapy as a client from a teen years that, oh. I actually can work with things. It's safe to feel my emotions. Mm-hmm. It's, it's okay to feel the hurt and there's a way through it. Wow. And, and that was really, for me, it, it, it encouraged me and I would say, maybe I'll mention that too.

[00:04:59] At the [00:05:00] time, what helped me through it is, I've always loved sports and I was in martial arts, so martial arts. Also gave me a sense of like focusing on my mind. Okay. Focusing on channeling energy. And for me then was anger. A lot of anger. Yeah. So just channeling anger, not being destructive. Yeah, definitely.

[00:05:21] and then I, I came across a book is a teen that's called Zen in the Martial Arts. And I thought, ooh, what is. That I want that I was a reading about it and I remember reading one story that said, if your cup is full, you can't take in new information, so empty your cup. And I thought, I have no idea what the heck that means.

[00:05:47] But I wanna empty. My cup is full. Mm-hmm. I'm always agitated, annoyed, upset with the world, upset with my circumstances. My cup is overflowing. Oh yeah. So, so that gave me a sense of, there's [00:06:00] something in this world of, what is this zen? What is this? Pausing and taking a breath. I really appealed to me. I didn't understand it, but I'm like, I want, I want this peace of mind, peace of heart.

[00:06:13] Mm. Wow, that was so beautiful to share. You know, as a teenager we have our hormones going in with the adolescence age identity, and then when you have trauma, it really shifts and changes your, your system and trying to navigate that in a, in a brain that's growing and developing as a teenager. Yes. So hard.

[00:06:36] And then finding the spacing, counseling to know, wow, this is my safe place. Because once you have trauma, you feel like survival and not safe at all. Everything's in danger. Yeah. Yeah. And wow, so you were able to find that counseling where you did feel safe to express your emotions, speak vulnerable, to share those.

[00:06:55] Mm-hmm. And then loving the passion of martial arts because there's [00:07:00] that misconception with martial arts that it's violent, that it's Right. Aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. And you turn that around going, yeah, you can channel the anger, the emotion, but having that control on how to manage the behavior.

[00:07:16] When you have that emotion was so cathartic on, on how you just grew and learned and changed. Wow. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, you're talking about, you know, martial arts or something that my teacher at the time, and, you know, I, I never really understood the profound impact he had on me until like years later.

[00:07:37] Yeah. Because he was so encouraging, so supportive. He was like this, you know, male, role model for me. Growing up that is like, it's okay to be strong and being strong does not mean violence or aggression. Not that I experienced that from, like, my father was very loving. Yeah. But, but there's something about, I just remembered something he said, [00:08:00] he knew I was going for a struggle.

[00:08:01] He said, you know, this is just a mountain. Mm-hmm. And, right now it's in front of you, but one day it will be behind you. And it was so profound, like a simple metaphor. So, you know, even for listeners, if there's some mountain in front of you right now, yeah. You know, it may feel like insurmountable. How, how the heck am I gonna go over this?

[00:08:23] It's challenging. Yes. But like one step at a time. One step at a time. Wow. I love that. Many psychologists mention how genetics or upbringing play a role in a person, but in general it's also just the environment in general. Mm-hmm. Not just the parents and the family dynamics, but outside of the environment that play a role.

[00:08:45] Yes. So even though you, you had your loving father, you still got influence. And influenced outside. Yes. By this nurturing person, learning other things that were positive, shaping and forming that [00:09:00] healing further. Wow. You know, it's more like a support system. Yes. You know? Yes. Yeah. How important do you think a support system is when you're trying to heal?

[00:09:11] I I really think it's quite a huge ingredient because we often, I, I know it's something that I struggled with as, as a teen is, like a lone wolf. I think many people have that, like, you know, I just do it on my own. I don't need anyone, especially if, if we've been hurt. Okay. So, so this, this is like, you know, anyone, regardless of gender, it's like if I'm hurt, if somebody hurt me.

[00:09:33] How, how am I supposed to trust? 

[00:09:35] . Community and finding the right people is really huge for support and, and building these positive places. Okay. And influence people we can be with. Okay. Is, is really, is really powerful. I love that. It's strength, it's strength based. There's actually some interesting research on that.

[00:09:52] Yeah. Strength based approaches, but more people have positive influences of their life, the better they have their health [00:10:00] outcomes. Mm. So we know. I love that. Doesn't matter. It could be a volunteer work, it could be, you know, exercise class, could be a Zumba class, it could be whatever. You go with someone and you smile and you feel, you feel met, you feel welcomed.

[00:10:16] You feel seen. You feel like you matter. Yes. You leave feeling positive, right? So, yes, yes. Seen, validated, and I say this because women who are people pleasers, you know, especially the women here in in the society and programming, we have to be appeasing, we have to be pleasing, and we don't wanna go against our culture.

[00:10:43] At times we feel like we're braving the wilderness, as Brene Brown would say, or the lone wolf. Yeah, and I love how you mentioned that approach, that if our family, either relatives or our primary environment, do not offer that support, and deep down in your gut you know that you want to [00:11:00] heal and know that it's not good for you, you can still find other avenues to find strength in, in finding yourself.

[00:11:08] Positive relationships. Right, right. Because we may not get that from our immediate, I mean, as, as immediate family might be incredibly loving, but they're not fulfilling all the needs. Or they may not be loving, like for some people, you know, they're immediate or close family, they're not getting what they're needing.

[00:11:25] I guess sometimes it might be hard to believe, but there's a lot of good people out there. 

[00:11:29] And not to have this like blind faith in people, but to, give people a chance and, building friendships. Yeah. Building acquaintances even. I love that. Not not blind faith, because sometimes people are like, oh, just trust everyone.

[00:11:45] You can't trust everyone. So you gotta, you gotta be smart, you gotta be cautious. You don't, oh my gosh. Let's talk about that. okay, so some of the people pleasers have this myth misconception if I give them my heart. If I give [00:12:00] them my my personal space and, you know, whatever they want, the whole people pleasing.

[00:12:04] They're gonna give me their love or all this positive stuff Mm. That they want or need or anything like that. 'cause that's part of the whole people pleasing survival. and you mentioned something right now about wait, not blind faith. Yeah. How, how can mindfulness help with that behavior? Mm. Oh, this is a, a, a pretty big question.

[00:12:29] and so we can unpack it here. Yes. So how can mindfulness, I, I guess if I take a step back to even, like, there's a lot of mis misconception what mindfulness is. Okay. Because mindfulness somehow is everywhere now. Like it's in magazines. Okay. There's like. Mindfulness. Chocolates and mindfulness.

[00:12:46] Deodorant and mindfulness. I don't know. Oh my gosh. It's so much the wordy it out. The word is over you. Yes. Yeah, yes. But you know, if, if we keep it to it's, it's, it's purity, you know, mindfulness, Is a way of paying attention, [00:13:00] being present. 

[00:13:01] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:01] Anita Sandoval: And, one of many definitions used, the one I really like is by John Kain, who is a, who is a molecular biologist from MIT.

[00:13:11] Wow. And he created the mindfulness based stress reduction MBSR program in 79, and it's been kind of a gold standard in. Mindfulness and interventions. So the definition, he uses that for me. I'm like, oh wow, this is so simple and actually so complex. So it's four things. It's the awareness that arises. Okay, so something we become aware of when we pay attention.

[00:13:37] Okay. On purpose. Okay. And the present moment and nonjudgmentally. So four things. Pay attention on purpose. End the present moment, nonjudgmentally. So, okay, so how do we do that? Mm-hmm. Well, in meditation, we're training this awareness, this mindfulness. So when we say meditation, there's many forms of [00:14:00] meditation.

[00:14:00] Okay. There is meditations where you repeat words like mantras. There are meditations you visualize, but mindfulness is actually paying attention to something. So it could be your breath if it's accessible to you or your hands, or sounds. So you pay attention right here and when your mind drifts, 'cause it's gonna drift within a few seconds.

[00:14:28] Not. Not like if when ad drifts we're building now a new relationship to that thought, instead of like, what's wrong with me? My mind is broken. I can't do this thing. I'm too distracted. Oh, what's for lunch? Oh, I can't believe this person said that to me. Did I forget my keys? Dah, dah, dah. Like, like all the million things we have, they're gonna come up.

[00:14:55] But here's the beauty of mindfulness, is we build a new [00:15:00] relationship to our mind. Hmm. Which means we get to know, here's my thought. I'm having a thought. One of the most powerful things with mindfulness, people recognize I'm having a thought. I am not the thought. Mm-hmm. It might be an anxious thought, it might be a, a kind of a sad thought.

[00:15:19] Mm-hmm. It might be a excited thought. But I'm not, that there's something that's coming and going. So the, the reason I give this little background on, on mindfulness because the more, and, and your specific audience as well is the more I people get to know themself, the more they can catch patterns. Okay?

[00:15:42] Like, ooh, someone asked me to do something and I wanted people please. Like, Hey, do you want to go out for. This type of food or whatever. I was like, I really don't want to go for this type of food, but okay, what do I want? Like, there might be a second of like, actually I don't want, shall I save this?

[00:15:59] Okay, [00:16:00] let me pause now. Now we have space. We have space to check in rather than a reactive response based on conditioning. So conditioning for all of us kicks in. Immediate. I say, yes. Someone says, let's do this. I say yes, rather than, yes, yes, yes. That's people pleasing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. People pleasing. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:23] Exactly. So, so yeah. I love that. You know, so conditioning, you start creating a habit on the mindfulness. So when somebody does say something, your quick, quick reflex of saying, yes, you're actually used to doing the mindfulness and you're paying attention to that present within you in that situation.

[00:16:41] Mm-hmm. And then also you, you mentioned. Picking up those habits in the, in the patterns in the past. So if you are so easy to give yourself more than what you're getting, you can pay attention with the mindfulness more present on the situation at hand and, and, you know, yeah. [00:17:00] Yeah. You said something else too, which I'm gonna go back to.

[00:17:04] Yeah. You are like, oh, it gives you that space, and that's what mindfulness does. You mentioned the feeling of the cup when it's over, fool. 

[00:17:12] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Yeah. So 

[00:17:13] Anita Sandoval: mindfulness helps lower that feeling of the cup to give space for anything else that you want. Yes. And actually to recognize in the moment. Like someone maybe is asking you a question.

[00:17:27] Can you do this for me in the moment? Like, if my cup is so full right now and I know my cup is full, maybe I need to tell them, let me get back to you. I gotta think about this. Like right now, I can't think. Yeah, like mindfulness is getting to know how my mind is right now. I actually can't think. Let me get back to you.

[00:17:43] I don't know the answer. Rather than just give an answer. Yes. Checking where your your cup is. Yeah. Know where your cup is. Like you, if you don't know, you're just gonna reply. Right. Yeah. People please look, people please just reply. Boom. Yes. Oh my gosh, gosh. But here's, but, but here's another thing that I really [00:18:00] want to share mm-hmm.

[00:18:00] For the audience too is, and mindfulness can really help with that, is the non-judgmental piece. Ooh, yes. That sounds so simple. But literally like, you know, I teach an eight week program and like that's one of the things we go through over eight weeks. It's like, how do we become non-judgmental with mindfulness?

[00:18:20] What does that mean? Wow. If you are wanting to put a boundary with someone and you are a people pleaser, for example mm-hmm. And you default to saying yes when you want to say no, like, can you do this for me? Or do you wanna go out and, and you really wanna say no, but you said yes. What? What do most people do after that?

[00:18:44] To themself. They punish themselves and put themselves and criticize What's wrong with me? Look at me. I'm a failure. I can't believe I keep doing this. I'll never. Now we're adding another layer of suffering. So [00:19:00] nonjudgmental means just to recognize, you know what? Yeah, I, I fell into this old habit. We all will, like, no one doesn't fall into an old, some kinda old habit.

[00:19:09] And the job of mindfulness is to recognize, ooh, right now, old conditioning kicked in just with kindness, with compassion. I need to recover from this and learn from it rather than beat myself, because now we're doubling the pain. The pain of doing something we didn't want to. People pleasing. And then the pain of.

[00:19:32] Criticizing ourself, which doesn't help either. Yeah. Doesn't, I love how you said that. Non-judgmental, and then you said the word for me, key word, compassion. Yeah. And, and do you feel that they are parallel non-judgment and compassion? Yes, absolutely. Wow. You know, compassion and kindness. There's actually so much research on that.

[00:19:53] Mm-hmm. You know, how much it really supports, this wellbeing. it's, it really creates a friendliness to ourself. [00:20:00] Mm. And also friendliness with others. Oh. Yes, it really does. Yes, yes. Where the energy is, you're so full within your own energy, what are the, whether it's positive or negative, but it's gonna overflow over out to others.

[00:20:15] Yes, totally. But I wanna say something about compassion too, because sometimes it's misunderstood as well. 

[00:20:21] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Okay. Yeah. Tell me, because 

[00:20:22] Anita Sandoval: sometimes compassion, some people go, no, I'm gonna be a doormat. I'm gonna living compassion. People are gonna step all over me and I'm just gonna keep people pleasing for your audience.

[00:20:32] Yes. If I'm compassionate, I'm just gonna be compassionate. They wanna go out. Okay. I'll say, yes. Yes. That's what they say. Okay. I'll go ahead and what? Say that's not compassion. They say thank you. What is I? Thank you for sharing that. That's what I say. Yes. Tell me what it is that that Yeah. Compassion actually is.

[00:20:50] Connecting deeply to someone, to ourself and someone's yearning. So it's so, ah, like they're really wanting to go out right now. I can really [00:21:00] feel that they have a yearning to go out. And I can also have compassion to myself. I really don't want to go out. I'm gonna listen to myself. So it's not outta anger to them 

[00:21:09] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: mm-hmm.

[00:21:09] Anita Sandoval: But it's out of, actually love. Like, I, I really love myself and I want to care for this person. So I'm gonna say no outta compassion. So that's a whole different frame for compassion. It's not a doormat is, is not ignoring our needs. is people pleasing for survival and doing what they say.

[00:21:31] Compassion. Yeah. The only way to survive is to people please. Like it might be a situation where like, I have to say yes Uhhuh to whatever. Do you have someone, an example in mind? Like someone, let's see. 'cause we have two types of people pleasing.

[00:21:44] The people. Please, yes. Whatever you say, maybe 'cause they're stuck in the car and they feel that they want, that conflict's getting more and they feel like they might get hurt. It might turn to people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and so, but then we have the other case where, because it started the habit and you're not in [00:22:00] that danger zone anymore.

[00:22:01] Right. So you're people pleasing at a habit. 'cause your nervous system is still in survival. Mm. See, that's, that's, you know, mindfulness, often the word is used is like wisdom. 

[00:22:11] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:12] Anita Sandoval: That's when we can discern, okay, is this habitual pattern that's helping me or is it not helping me?

[00:22:19] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. But 

[00:22:19] Anita Sandoval: we have to recognize, okay, what am I in right now? If someone is in a car, I'm feeling unsafe. People pleasing is the right thing to do. Mm-hmm. Like I have to say, okay, yeah, let's go there. Or, or yeah, that's what I need to do. That that's actually smart. Yeah. And to have compassion that they, someone had to do people pleasing, survive.

[00:22:38] Ooh, yes. I like how you said that because they say, how dare I people please. You were surviving. You were in a situation at that point that had to happen. It's there for a reason. Fight, flight, freeze. People pleasing, appease are there for a reason, so to say I'm never gonna do it is irrational because there are tools to use [00:23:00] when needed.

[00:23:01] Yes. See, to have compassion for the patterns that actually helped us survive. 

[00:23:08] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:09] Anita Sandoval: Like people pleasing, you know, we can develop it to survive. Mm-hmm. And it helped us. Yeah. So, so we don't wanna kind of shame that pattern. We don't wanna put down that pattern. we don't want to humiliate that pattern in, in ourself where it's like, oh, this is an, it's like an old friend.

[00:23:26] Yes. This old friend helped me before. Right Now, this friend might be getting me in trouble, right. But at the time, this friend helped me. Yeah. And this friend sometimes will visit us. It's like, oh, look, I'm doing people pleasing again. Yes. Is it, is it, the question really is, is it. Helpful right now. Ooh. Yes.

[00:23:47] And you know, you're answering my next question that I wanted to ask you. You know, going back to your healing journey. 

[00:23:54] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm. 

[00:23:55] Anita Sandoval: You know, teaching you about worthiness resilience, and [00:24:00] how might that mirror for women in toxic relationships and they wanting to leave that relationship that is either toxic or unfulfilling?

[00:24:09] Well, the first thing is to recognize this is toxic. Okay. And unfulfilling. Okay. 'cause you know, I think many people, are in denial. Okay. So to recognize this is actually not healthy to see, you know, I mean, this is the mindfulness piece I was about to say. Yeah. I, you know, I have a, a dear, dear, friend and mentor who, who I teach retreats with mindfulness retreats with, and he often says this and I love it.

[00:24:33] He's like, you know, the only two things that can save us from ourself in this world is love and awareness. 

[00:24:39] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:40] Anita Sandoval: It's like, I love, like, can we be aware of what's happening and, and approach it with love. So if we are aware. Oh, right now I'm in people pleasing and this is hurting me. Let's bring love to myself and how can I work through it?

[00:24:56] Like, yeah. Okay. I kinda [00:25:00] rejected myself or abandoned myself to please someone. Yeah. I, I just, I, I ignored my own need. Okay. I did that. Okay. But, but I just had to do that and let me learn from it. Okay. Yeah. Wow. 

[00:25:15] What if they don't even know they're in a toxic or unfulfilling relationship because all they knew was that, and mindfulness can teach within their body to pay attention with their instinct of what they like and don't like, and then know, well, am I people pleasing to survive? It's okay. But then, you know, is it something that I wanna keep doing for the rest of my life?

[00:25:39] Is that healthy for? System and they can then make that decision. And then the other part is, am I people pleasing out a habit? And am I actually safe in this relationship? Is the unfulfilling coming from me? And, and part of it, of course, will, but we wanna take a look. Is it really toxic and unfulfilling?

[00:25:59] [00:26:00] Is it within your, your own mind and body, or actually the situation with the other partner? 

[00:26:06] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm. 

[00:26:06] Anita Sandoval: And mindfulness can help discern that. Yeah, you, you know, it's, if you think of mindfulness is doing a couple different things. One is connecting to ourself, like mindfulness is about deep contact. With the moment, including myself, like, what's happening in me?

[00:26:25] What are my thoughts? What are my emotions and sensations? Okay. Because that's an important piece. Sensations. Many people, you know, story mindfulness, they're like, oh, I have the body. Like, I don't just live in my head. Okay. Yeah, because it's actually amazing if we're in a moment that. Is abusive or something's happening, or even like someone's rude mm-hmm.

[00:26:47] To us. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Even if we put aside abuse from someone's just rude stranger. Okay. We're gonna feel it in the body. Our heart are raised we'll, temperature changes. We'll have a knot in the stomach, so our body [00:27:00] tells us. Yeah. So if someone is in a, people pleasing situation and you're stuck in a relationship that's toxic.

[00:27:09] It's kind of waking up to how am I even feeling what's happening in my body? And sometimes it's, it's very hard to just to do this on your own. So seeking support is really important. Mm. And you know, I would say with, with, I've seen, you know, having both hats as a psychologist and meditation teacher, they really compliment each other.

[00:27:29] Hmm. So doing some counseling work and obviously, you know, there's jurisdiction issues, so whoever's listening to this somewhere in your region, yeah. it's really important to get support and the mindfulness will support this kind of self-discovery and self-healing, and I love that. Coming to terms with our life as it is while would create change, you know, and depending what region you're at.

[00:27:54] Some are more rural, some are not. Some may know a lot about mindfulness. [00:28:00] Mindfulness to some people, or maybe some women here in our audience who are people pleasers may feel unattainable or very complex or abstract. How would you help define it in a way that feels, digestible, accessible to someone who's just beginning to reclaim their life after years of people pleasing?

[00:28:18] I think it's, you know, on top of the definition I shared kind of paying attention. Yeah. On purpose, present moment. Now judgmentally, it's really as simple as just, being present and knowing you're present. Mm. So this could be as simple as when you have your cup of tea. Okay. Or coffee.

[00:28:36] Can you actually smell the coffee? Are you, can you feel holding the mug? Can you take a moment to taste it? We often are rushing, like it's just being in our senses. Okay, so mindfulness is just being present in our senses. It could be like, you know, next time you go outside, when you open the door, can you feel the heat or the coolness [00:29:00] outside or the sun?

[00:29:01] Like it's as simple as just being present. Very. Yeah. So let's talk about this being present because I know it happened to me and I really want to help the women who are people pleasers. 'cause like you said, when they go back to something, they tend to not have compassion. Yeah. So when I was. First starting my journey with mindfulness and grounding and being paying attention.

[00:29:24] I remember it. Great. Fine. And Daniel, when you first wake up, because everything's cleared in the nervous system and programming still doesn't kick in. Then throughout lunchtime it's like. Ah, you know, everything is go, go, go. And I forget it and I'm like, I can't even keep it the whole day. 

[00:29:39] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Yeah, 

[00:29:39] Anita Sandoval: yeah, yeah.

[00:29:40] And you know, so it's the resilience building of the mindfulness. What would be, and I know everybody is different. Yeah. But as an average, what would be a rule of thumb for practicing the awareness of the senses? ' cause some of my patients. Have this thing where they say, well, I [00:30:00] was stressed out. I was having this, then I practice mindfulness.

[00:30:03] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Right. That's why, that's why I'm saying that. 

[00:30:06] Anita Sandoval: What, what are your thoughts on the practicing of the mindfulness? Yeah, a great question. I get this question a lot. So there's a couple of things with that. , you named something, Many people do it as like crisis meditation. 

[00:30:21] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:22] Anita Sandoval: I'm upset, I'm agitated, I'm annoyed.

[00:30:24] Now I'm gonna sit, I'm gonna close my eyes, I'm gonna be calm. That's actually not meditation. Meditation. Mindfulness is not, not now I gotta turn myself to be calm. You're not trying to do anything, not even trying to relax. You're just being present. It could be, you know, as simple as even right now if somebody's listening or, or walking is like noticing your feet.

[00:30:47] Just right here. Just like a split second, just right this moment. Can you feel in your feet right over here? Mm. whether you're wearing shoe socks, flip flops, can you feel tingling? Can you feel itching? Can you feel robbing? [00:31:00] Can you feel the pressure? Can you feel what's present on feet? That's it. We just practice right now.

[00:31:07] Mindfulness, right? Yeah. It's just you, you, you, you brought this mind that goes. In a million direction all the time. You focused it like a flashlight somewhere you went. Yeah. So it's gathering attention real quick. Okay. Okay. Right. Yeah. So, so it's the first thing. It's, it's not a, it's not a crisis meditation.

[00:31:31] and the more we practice in our day, it's, it's like anything, you know, if, if you wanna be a good swimmer, Learn dancing. You're a good salsa dancer. You know? I mean, you're not just gonna dance. Oh, if there's a party, I'm gonna go now, I'm gonna become an amazing salsa dancer. Now you gotta take lessons, you gotta practice.

[00:31:51] You're gonna be stepping on people's toes. You're gonna get frustrated with yourself. You're like, I don't know if I can ever get this thing but patient. So I guess the, [00:32:00] the thing I wanna really for, for the listeners to know is it's a skill, okay? That we can learn, okay. To not just to regulate our nervous system, but actually a skill to wake up to our lives.

[00:32:17] Hmm. It's, it's, it's, this is the waking up. Like every moment, every moment we're alive will never happen again. Like this moment we're, we're talking, me and you. It's gonna be history. Like the moment I just said that two seconds ago is already gone. Yes. Right. Yeah. So, so mindfulness is like, can I be there for it?

[00:32:40] Can I wake up to being, can I, can I take this moment in? It's gonna have amazing things in a moment, and some moments it's gonna be tragic and deep sorrow. So mindfulness says. I'm building the capacity in me to hold space for all of it. [00:33:00] Ooh, yes. Because all of it. Yeah. They just think it's happy feelings.

[00:33:04] No, yeah. Tell me that, that that's actually one of the misconception is like I was practicing mindfulness and, and how come I felt agitated or anxious. Yes, yes. That is my mindfulness is recognizing how you are. Befriending yourself. Like, it's like if, if you, if anyone has kids or you have a pet that you really love and they're hurting, what would you do?

[00:33:30] Wouldn't you like put your arms around them? You say, oh, it's okay. Come here. You know, if it's a pet, you'd pet them. It's like, it's okay if it's a child. You kind bring them with love, embrace them. Mindfulness does this to ourself. We're, we're literally doing that. Like, ooh, there's anxiety. I, I'm gonna, it's okay.

[00:33:49] I'm gonna sit with anxiety. I'm gonna breathe into it, relax into it. It's just what's here right now. So this is a huge misconception that a lot of people stop, [00:34:00] especially if you're do it on an app or something, you know, apps can be helpful, but there isn't enough guidance. People are like, I sat for two minutes, but nothing happened, or I got really upset.

[00:34:08] Well, you know what? You're getting to know your mind. Mm. Your mind is gonna have a lot of states agitated, less, less annoyed, pissed off, calm, loving. Annoyed, hopeless, hopeful. Like all of it. I love because you answered my question when, when I said, oh, what happens when you are not present? Go, oh, I didn't even last.

[00:34:33] Well, that's part of mindfulness too, knowing that you were aware that you weren't aware. So yeah, huge. See the moment, you know, you are not present, you're present. The moment, you know, you're like, whoa, I just spent the last five minutes replaying and rehashing an argument with someone that I don't want to even think about.

[00:34:56] Okay. You know what I mean? [00:35:00] 

[00:35:00] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Oh, 

[00:35:00] Anita Sandoval: okay. The moment you're aware, you have choice. See the moment you're aware you have choice. Ooh, do I keep going there? And maybe, maybe it's wise, I need to think through this thing. Mm-hmm. , because mindfulness isn't about. All thinking is bad.

[00:35:14] This is, this is not mindfulness, mindfulness sake. If you're wanting to think through something, plan something, reflect, contemplate by choice. Got it, got it. But not habitual ruminating, which is judgment. Criticizing. Yeah. This replaying. Rehashing, yeah. Yeah. Just paying attention what it is. And not just yet labeling it.

[00:35:36] Yeah. Yeah, . You know, and then many women in our community, they feel stuck. They have the guilt, they have the fear of abandonment. Rejection, yeah. Over-functioning for others. I see how mindfulness can help them start to unhook those patterns. 

[00:35:51] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Yes. 

[00:35:52] Anita Sandoval: being aware of those emotions, then you're able to make a choice.

[00:35:56] Yeah. Do you wanna continue or do you not? [00:36:00] Yes. So, so it creates choice and I think one of the most powerful thing that I've seen in my own life and all the participants I work with mm-hmm. And, and the mindfulness programs, is getting to realize you are not broken. Oh. Talk about that. I hear that often with the women people pleasers is, I'm broken.

[00:36:23] What's wrong with me? What's wrong? You are not broken. So it's, it's not like one, I fix everything in my life, then I'll be whole. Yeah. When I figure the solution, no, my, my phone is saying, you are holding complete as you are and we're gonna hold space for parts of you that you're struggling with, parts of you that.

[00:36:47] Already you are lovable that you can connect with all of it. All of it. You know, you just remind me of a quote that it makes me smile as a, as Zen teacher passed [00:37:00] away. But he says, you know, you are perfect as you are and you can use a little improvement. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yes. So, so, so it's perfect as you're, it's not because you're broken, it's like, yeah.

[00:37:15] And we can all improve on how we work. So this is really huge. And by the way, this extends like, not people pleasing your naming, but it could be conditions that someone, Ooh. Engaging with people pleasing, like they may have, whatever liver challenge or heart issue, or

[00:37:33] eating disorders, mental health. It's, it's like ADHD I know. Adhd, you know, sometimes it gets very overwhelming 'cause my processing is different. Mm-hmm. And, you know, emotional regulation is one of the top for neurodivergence and, it's difficult sometimes. Yeah. Where it's like, Ugh, I didn't catch this on time.

[00:37:51] And then mindfulness helps me go. It's okay. Your processing is different and that's okay. It's not good or it's not bad. This is you. Yeah. All in its [00:38:00] entirety and you're just amazing. Just how you are. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. You know, there's something, you know, I just, I'm, I kind, I feel visceral in my body.

[00:38:10] 'cause I just finished teaching a retreat, a five day silence retreat. And the sense that that is felt really in, in, in the group is. Coming home to ourself. Do you know what I mean? Like being home in our own skin mm-hmm. With our own pains and tragedies and, and hopes and things we're excited about in life coming home.

[00:38:31] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:32] Anita Sandoval: You're already whole, you're already a beautiful human being and you have a, a challenge in life. Wow. I want you to elaborate on this because I know women who are recovering from burnout, from people pleasing, from failed relationships. How is this mindfulness such a powerful practice for them? 

[00:38:56] It's, it's really powerful because, there [00:39:00] is this coming to terms with our life, okay? Versus like, you know what this is now, this is not what I wanted. This is maybe not what I hope for my life. But this is the life I have. What do I do with it? So, so, so it's spending less time and blaming, spending less time and hating oneself, spending less time, spinning like in the spot.

[00:39:26] It's like, this is a condition I'm in right now. Yeah, it's really difficult. Yeah. And Let me extend this, olive branch to myself. Mm-hmm. Like mindfulness does that. It's like you're extending an olive branch, making peace with your own life. You don't have to like what's happening. Yeah. Nor do you have to agree.

[00:39:47] External circumstances, like you don't have to say, oh, it's okay. This person was really bad to me, but it's okay. Oh no. Was it okay? That was wrong. Right. Thank you for saying that. That was [00:40:00] wrong, that that's crossed a boundary. That was not appropriate, and my work now is to heal. Ooh. I'm in control of that.

[00:40:11] That I'm control of that. Yes. Because you know, one of the side effects of characteristics of people pleasing is a loss of identity. You talked about what they're we're doing, they're becoming, how, does that bridge work of letting go and finding you, gaining identity?

[00:40:28] Does it help with that? Mm, of course. Because you're getting to discover yourself, right? You're kind of going, okay, what am I doing? Like. How come I keep when someone says I get really agitated or someone looks at me a certain way, I get really upset. What's going on here? What's going on?

[00:40:47] And sometimes we can't see it in ourselves again. That's where therapy or counseling is helpful. it's just, recognizing again, yeah, recognizing what's happening in the moment. Look what just happened. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:41:00] Why am I so upset right now? What's happening? And like there, there's a, there's a piece of, you know, in mindfulness we call it investigation.

[00:41:07] Okay. Which is very different than analysis. Okay. We're not trying to analyze, we're going to, it's like almost like this curiosity, what's going on in me right 

[00:41:16] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: now? Hmm. 

[00:41:19] Anita Sandoval: With curiosity, you know, there's a neuroscientist, Dr. Judd Brewer from Brown University. Okay. And he uses mindfulness to work with addiction.

[00:41:27] His work is amazing actually, and e even, addiction in terms of substances, but also eating. Mm, overeating eating. Yeah. right. So, he says, curiosity is a superpower. Wow. Curiosity is a superpower. Just, just get curious, like, like nonjudgmental, like what am I doing? How am I behaving?

[00:41:52] What's happening here? Like curiosity, that's mindfulness. Like what's happening in my life. Do you [00:42:00] feel that, like with identity, right? You're having that curiosity with your Zen teacher that said, you, you get to know the. Perfect person that you are and still, you know, find the improvement. 

[00:42:10] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Yes. 

[00:42:11] Anita Sandoval: Yeah. And, and it reminds me of identity.

[00:42:13] Like you get to know who you are, the person you are, and room for improvement. Yes. So saying that, do you feel like with, when you find your identity, it's not, okay, this is my identity and that's it not. You know, can identity be fluid? Oh, yes, absolutely. And, and actually a, a lot of the kind of wisdom traditions, they speak about that on, on different, really, you know?

[00:42:35] Yeah. There's no sense of, we, we think there's a fixed sense of self. It's fixated like concrete. I am this, but actually, I mean, where's the eye is? Yeah. Where is I? Is I in your liver? Is I in the brain? Is I in the head? Like where is I like Yeah, yeah. The sense. So, so we may have [00:43:00] some traits we have mm-hmm.

[00:43:02] But the belief that we cannot change or fixed is, it's, it's not helpful. It's not accurate. So there's no fixed identity. Mm-hmm. We can learn and change. Okay. Right, so, so if someone says, this is how I am, I'm a people person, I can't change. Hmm. Is that the truth or is that a belief you can't change?

[00:43:26] Yeah, I love that. How does that apply to people who want to become authentic? Oh yeah. This is, you know, this is a natural byproduct of mindfulness, okay. Is when you spend time connecting to yourself, you can't help not be real. Oh, right now I'm feeling, I'm feeling excited right now I'm feeling sleepy right now.

[00:43:52] You, you take off the veil of Yeah. What I should be, yeah. And connect to just here's [00:44:00] here's how it is. Yeah. Because you're tuned in. You're tuned into you. You're tuned into your own heart, your own body, your own mind. Wow. And do you feel like with, when you're a people pleaser, you're not tuned in, so it would be emotionally exhausting to be a people pleaser, but when you're authentic and in tune with your identity, that's learning, growing and changing, you'd have more energy and just produce more energy?

[00:44:24] Yes. Because instead of trying to. Put together like acting according to people's expectation. I should do this because they think this is me and I shouldn't do this. It's exhausting. It is. Emotionally, yeah. It's exhausting. It's like having to be someone to please someone like it. It's, Yeah, we both take a breath.

[00:44:44] We've all had that. I, I've experienced that. Yes. Yes. To not, yeah. We've all had it because it isn't the culture, you know, it's unavoidable and, 

[00:44:53] talking about how mindfulness with setting boundaries and reconnecting with your inner worth, how can [00:45:00] mindfulness help with that? So if, if, if you really see yourself as a whole and complete, you're, you're going to really see value in who you are. Okay? This, this, this, actually, this rare being that will never exist again.

[00:45:14] Ah, like this, this, you know, Anita will never be a number. Anita. Do you know what I mean? That's it. Yeah. me Kasim there's not gonna be a number. That's it. There's just one, one and done. Do you know what I mean? Like it's over. Yeah. So recognizing the preciousness Yeah. Of each person. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And bringing the, mindfulness piece again, is becoming aware, like.

[00:45:38] Am I feeling something in my being that's telling me I don't want to do this, I don't wanna, like, let's, let's do a, an example. . Yeah. it could be even be very positive, right? Okay. It could be have like, you know, three separate friends. They all wanna. Hang out on the weekend, one on Friday, one on Saturday, one on Sunday, and they're like, let's do something Friday night.

[00:45:59] Let's do [00:46:00] something Saturday afternoon, let's do Sunday. And each one of them contacts you separately. Oh my gosh. Right? And then so people believe it's like, I'm feeling it. I gotta say yes because I don't wanna lose a friendship. I have to say yes. Now, what happens if you say yes to all three and. You really needing time for yourself.

[00:46:19] Oh my gosh, what happens end of the weekend? Oh my gosh, yes. Emotional burnout, physical burnout, whole drain like, and actually it doesn't honor these three people because you're with them and going, when is like, I really wanna be home. Like I'm tired. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. And sometimes we have obligations and we all do.

[00:46:42] I mean, sometimes it's like, this happens and not to be it ourself. Like sometimes there's events or 

[00:46:47] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Yeah. 

[00:46:47] Anita Sandoval: Ceremonies like, yeah, we're just gonna go to this thing and it's okay. Yeah. But put the boundary and go, I really can't do three outings this weekend. I can do two and I need [00:47:00] space for me. Wow. Right.

[00:47:02] So to recognize like, what is my, like our body is a barometer. Okay. When all these three people invite me, what's my initial, what does my body tell me? If I'm saying yes to all of them, is it yay or is it like, oh shoot. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that, I love that. Yeah. So then we can use that to build the boundary.

[00:47:24] And, and maybe I'll share this with, with, listeners, which is very practical, something I teach in that mindfulness space stress reduction. MBSR program, by the way, I teach this. online. Online. Oh, no way. I didn't know that. Yeah, so, so, and I teach free sessions about it, so if someone's curious and we'll put it in the show notes.

[00:47:41] There's free sessions people can check out, see if it's for them. And, you know, I'll be there live online. yeah, I'm joining. I'm joining. Yeah. I would love to have you. Yes. And also I have, a prerecorded class. Okay. If someone wants to do a eight week program on their own.

[00:47:57] So that's available too. So [00:48:00] there's options. I guess. There's options, yeah. But, but I wanna share, one of the, one of the things I share in the program is, the STOP acronym. Okay. You know, STOP. Okay. STOP. And it's something that this, this is a bit of a homework if anyone wants to. Try it. Maybe today, maybe tomorrow.

[00:48:18] I like it. I love it a lot Like, like someone, someone asks you something or sends you a text, or emails you or calls you before you reply. Before you reply. Okay? If you're working on your plea people pleasing pattern, before you reply, literally say to yourself, say it, stop, and then apply what it means. The S stands for stop.

[00:48:42] The T stands for. Take a deep breath. Just that moment just go,

[00:48:47] okay, now it's gonna get really interesting. The O is observe. And what are you observing? The three key things we [00:49:00] practice in mindfulness, you're observing what are my thoughts about this? 

[00:49:03] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:04] Anita Sandoval: What am I thinking? What are my emotions about this? And what are the sensations in my body? 

[00:49:12] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Hmm. 

[00:49:13] Anita Sandoval: This is actually really powerful.

[00:49:14] What are my thoughts? What are my sensations and what are my feelings? What are my emotions? And that doesn't have to take more of a, like even right now it's like, okay, if we stop, okay, what am I thinking? Like the thought I had, like, wow, this is, I'm really enjoying this. Conversation with you. Oh, yeah. and the feeling is like uplifted.

[00:49:35] Yes. And, the sensation, I feel like openness in my face. I feel that. Right. So Right. Boom. Right there. So, so this is, it's really simple as that. So this is the O from the stop. And the P is really important. One, there's many ways people describe the p, but practice what works. Or you can think of it as, proceed with wisdom.[00:50:00] 

[00:50:00] So practice what works. So now that you've stopped, you've taken a deep breath, you're like, what am I thinking? What am I feeling? What are my sensations? Then proceed like, what do I need? I maybe need not to reply the next five minutes, I need to think about this more. Or maybe I need to let them know I can't.

[00:50:21] Or maybe like just to tap like. We truly have the wisdom in us. We, we often look for answers outside. Yes, yes. Common people pleaser for validation. Yes. Give me, gimme. What do you think? Gimme, gimme, right? Yes. And sometimes in the learning process, we're gonna need to look outside. Okay. But actually the wisdom is already inside.

[00:50:40] And that's what I think about it, is all the, these different teachings, they're just unraveling our own wisdom. Like that's why I've hanged out with different teachers and different traditions. Like I'm like. I wanna get to know me, but, but I need to be around people who've done this work. Yes. To, to learn about me.

[00:50:59] [00:51:00] Yes. Yes. Don't just go to a, you know, just, yes. You wanna go with someone that has the, the wisdom or shares the characteristics that you envision for you in the future. 

[00:51:13] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Right? 

[00:51:13] Anita Sandoval: Yes. I love that. And I know you mentioned your online courses and mm-hmm. Your retreats. So before we wrap up. I want the audience, our listeners, to know where they can connect with you.

[00:51:27] Learn more about your programs, retreats, your work at the Center for Mindfulness in Canada. Yes. Thank you so much. So, you know the, I have two websites, but they can try center for mindfulness.ca and center is kind of the Canadian spelling, so it's RE center, so C-E-N-T-R-E, center for Mindfulness and then.ca and we'll put that in the show notes.

[00:51:50] Oh, sure. and, you know. Finally last year I got onto Instagram and it's like I got out of the cave world and I'm like, I need to get on this Instagram thing, so, so we can find me Instagram [00:52:00] and, and we'll put that in the I love that. Yes. In the https://centreformindfulness.ca/ you'll, you'll see there the upcoming free sessions .

[00:52:08] Yes. And then that's. Yes. And then the upcoming programs you'll see there. And then if you look at the other website, 'cause this one I like too, the Dr. Yeah. Yeah. https://drkasimalmashat.com/ I love it because that has a little bit about you, your videos, and the TEDx as well. 'cause you were on Ted. You were having your long hair?

[00:52:31] I had long 

[00:52:32] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: hair. Yeah. 

[00:52:34] Anita Sandoval: So, you know, you wanna catch the, the other alter, you know, cause of these there. Yeah, yeah. The, the guy had long hair and now I can barely kinda keep the one at the top. I love it. So yeah, I'll put everything in the show notes. 

[00:52:48] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Yes. 

[00:52:49] Anita Sandoval: And, before we wrap up and end this episode. I always like to ask two reflective questions that invite something a little deeper for my audience to listen [00:53:00] in. What is your personal definition of an empowered woman? 

[00:53:05] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Ooh.

[00:53:10] Anita Sandoval: Hmm.

[00:53:15] That, that's a, that's a really good question. So I'm gonna give you what's popping up and, I actually didn't prepare this, so I didn't, when you asked me this, I didn't prepare to have, so it's just whatever's coming up right here. And of course, so an empowered woman is one who, has the deep courage to connect, to connect to her truth, to her authenticity. And the, the vulnerability to take wise action. Wow. I love that. Thank you. So this is what, so hopefully if it's made sense, it just popped up in my Yes. I love that because that combination Yes.

[00:53:56] And I want the audience to know that these questions I never give to my [00:54:00] guests because I want it to come from your true selves. 

[00:54:02] Dr. Kasim Al-Mashat: Yes. 

[00:54:03] Anita Sandoval: So, yeah. let's assume. Far into the future. Mm-hmm. Any work that you have created, for whatever unforeseen event gets lost, anything about you, your story, your legacy?

[00:54:16] Everything's been lost, the websites TEDx. Oh no. You know, for whatever uncontrolled circumstances. Yeah. But three generations from now. There lies a single handwritten letter that is discovered by young woman in your family line, be it a great, great grandniece, or you know, just in your family line. And this message is of truth, strength, guidance that you

[00:54:45] leave in this letter for the women that come after her to further. Progress. The women empowering themselves and other women in your family what truth would you bestow on them in this [00:55:00] letter? Oh wow. How much time do I have?

[00:55:06] Wow. What Truth, yeah, truth. That would capture them in terms of about, you know, everything you said disappeared. They know nothing about me. Is that, is that what what it is? yes. Nothing, everything about you, everything about you is lost 

[00:55:22] you know, first thing is, you know, you, you are already holding complete as you are. Mm. And, recognize your wholeness, your completeness. recognize the, the beauty that's already within. Yeah. I will speak about. I'm just remembering it.

[00:55:39] there's a, there's a poet Hafez a Persian poet. You know, he talks about there's a ruby buried here, there's a ruby buried, there's a gem here. So to recognize the gem that you are, gosh, to know that you could create more of a life that you want, [00:56:00] that life does not have to be just struggle. Life has suffering, life has pain, but also has incredible beauty.

[00:56:10] be patient with yourself. Be compassionate with yourself, let yourself just live this precious life. on top of it, just know that joy is available. Joy is available. Go. Yeah, go and get it. Yes. Yes. That was so beautiful. Wow. You know, Dr. Al-Mashat thank you so much for your wisdom, your presence, the grounding.

[00:56:42] Insight here you've shared today, and your story is just a powerful reminder that healing transformation is possible even after life's biggest challenges. Mm-hmm. And to our listeners, if today's conversation resonated with you, take a moment to [00:57:00] breathe, reflect, and know that your journey today towards empowerment, authenticity doesn't have to be rushed, just intentional, and know that you.

[00:57:11] Keep choosing you until our next conversation. 

[00:57:15] 

Podcasts we love

Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.