How People Pleasing Fuels Eating Disorders (And Why No One Sees It) — with Marnie Davis, LMHC, CEDS

What if your “little food problem” — the restriction, bingeing, or rigid food rules — is actually your nervous system trying to survive?

In this powerful conversation, I’m joined by Marnie Davis, LMHC, Certified Eating Disorder Specialist and Consultant, Certified EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA-Approved Consultant, and HAES®-aligned clinician.

Together, we explore the hidden link between people pleasing, trauma, neurodivergence, and eating disorders — and why so many women, clinicians, and families completely miss what’s really happening beneath the surface.

This is a compassionate, non-shaming, neurodivergent-affirming episode that reframes eating disorders from “What’s wrong with me?” to “What happened to me, and how did my system try to keep me alive?”

⚠️ Content Note: We discuss eating disorders, body image, trauma, dissociation, and co-occurring mental health struggles. Please listen with care and take breaks as needed.

✨ In This Episode, We Explore:

• How, from a trauma lens, eating disorders are maladaptive coping strategies that once made sense to your system
• The impact of attachment injuries, perfectionism, and people-pleasing on food, body image, and control
• Why eating disorders are not about vanity or willpower, but about safety, power, and relief from overwhelming sensations and emotions
• The role of culture, family rules, and “finish your plate” messages in shaping food beliefs
• How neurodivergent brains (ADHD, autism, sensory sensitivities) can be especially vulnerable to disordered eating
• Why one person dies every hour from an eating disorder and why a comprehensive medical + therapeutic team is crucial
• What healing can look like: becoming more self-led, value-driven, and authentically you

👤 Connect with Our Guest: Marnie Davis, LMHC, CEDS
Website:
🔗 www.MarnieDavisLMHC.com
Email:
📩 Marnie@MarnieDavisLMHC.com

LinkedIn:
🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/marnie-davis-lmhc-ceds-c-33187b45/Instagram:
🔗 @marniedavislmhcFacebook:
🔗 MarnieDavisLMHC
🔗 Davis Counseling and Consulting

🌿 Connect with Your Host, Anita Sandoval, MA, LPC-S
🔗 All My Links & Resources:
Start here for everything: podcast, free tools, courses, communities & more.
👉 https://www.anitasandoval.com/empowerher/links
🎧 Listen on Your Favorite Podcast Platform:
Find Empowering Women in Conversations on all major podcast directories.
👉 https://www.anitasandoval.com/podcast-directories

💌 If This Episode Spoke To You…

• Share it with a friend, client, or loved one who struggles with food, people pleasing, or feeling “never enough.”
• Subscribe so you don’t miss future conversations on people pleasing, boundaries, trauma, neurodivergence, and empowered living.
• Take a quiet moment after listening to ask yourself:

“If my eating, my people-pleasing, and my burnout are all parts of me trying to keep me safe… what would it look like to meet them with kindness instead of shame?”

You’re not broken. You’re a system that learned how to survive. 🩷

Chapters

• 0:00 Teaser: “What if your eating disorder is your nervous system trying to survive?”
• 1:18 Meet Marnie Davis: EMDR, eating disorders, IFS-informed, Brainspotting
• 2:26 How Marnie’s own story led her into this work
• 7:42 What is an eating disorder really… and what is it NOT?
• 10:25 Food as self-soothing, protection, and a “positive feeling state”
• 14:56 Culture, family rules, orthorexia & neurodivergent sensory needs
• 18:00 Myth: “Eating disorders only affect thin, white, upper-class women”
• 19:41 Myth: “It’s about food” & “It’s about vanity” — what’s actually underneath
• 23:00 The deep overlap between people pleasing and eating behaviors
• 27:20 Parts work / IFS: manager parts, protectors, exiles & survival
• 31:00 The “orchestra” metaphor: letting your wise, adult self lead
• 33:00 What healing begins to look like: authenticity, values, and self-leadership
• 35:28 EMDR vs Brainspotting: how they work and how they complement each other
• 38:00 One person dies every hour from an eating disorder: why a full treatment team matters
• 42:08 Holidays, family, food, culture & how to protect your nervous system
• 45:28 Neurodivergent brains, sensory overwhelm, and grounding tools
• 49:19 Marnie’s definition of an empowered woman
• 51:00 Kindness as legacy: what she’d tell future generations
• 52:02 Meet Charlie, the anxious Yorkie and honorary therapy co-host 🐶
• 53:50 Closing: “It’s okay to be you. Keep walking your empowered, authentic path.”

Transcript

How People Pleasing Fuels Eating Disorders

 (And Why No One Sees It) — with Marnie Davis, LMHC, CEDS

[00:00:00] Cedric: What if your eating disorder… or your “little food problem”… was actually your nervous system trying to survive?

[00:00:05] Anita Sandoval LPC: I think from a trauma lens, it is a maladaptive coping skill that has come about and became an answer to soothe an aspect of somebody's suffering. 

[00:00:18] Dolores: Could your people-pleasing and your food rules actually be the same part of you...Just trying to keep you safe?

[00:00:25] Cedric: Listen now to How People Pleasing Fuels Eating Disorders — with Marnie Davis.

[00:00:30] Speaker: Welcome to Empowering Women in Conversations podcasts, to empower and uplift women by providing a safe space for them to share their stories and experiences and encourage the strength, resilience, and power of women. If you are tired of putting others' needs before your own, leading to burnout and resentment, and you are ready to transform and create relationships [00:01:00] that are supportive rather than draining, join us on this journey of women overcoming adversities and achieving their true empowerment.

[00:01:11] Here's your host, a licensed professional counselor, Anita Sandoval. 

[00:01:18] Anita Sandoval LPC: My guest today is Marnie Davis, a licensed mental health counselor, certified eating disorder specialist, and consultant certified EMDR. Therapist and EMDRIA approved consultant IFS, informed tech. She uses IFS informed techniques to help clients reconnect, reconnect with compassion and self trust. She also.

[00:01:42] Works with Brainspotting, which we'll talk about later. I am getting into that and love to hear that. And Marnie's work here helps women move from shame and control to compassion and healing, and I just can't wait to hear from her wisdom [00:02:00] today and it's just such an honor to have you here. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:04] Thank you. Thank you for having me Anita. It's an honor. I'm so glad that we're doing this this time of the year 'cause I know the holidays are coming up. It's so stressful. 

[00:02:13] I know. before we jump in, I'd love, I'd love for you to share a little bit of what led you into this work on your passion to help helping women heal from eating disorders and trauma.

[00:02:26] How did that begin? 

[00:02:27] Well, and I think I'll just make a slight adjustment that I love working with women, but I really love working with individuals. Across all genders. And those that don't conform to one binary gender eating disorders affect, individuals across all identities, across all socioeconomic statuses, across all faith and religion, cultures, ethnicities, individuals with neurodivergence really no matter the identity.

[00:02:56] We all have a body. We all have food, we all have suffering. We [00:03:00] all have negative life experiences. We all have been inundated with aspects of beauty constructs, body ideals, fat phobia, weight discrimination, good bad foods, having to be healthy and and fit ideals, and whether the. the suffering is about body and how it presents 

[00:03:22] Or other experiences that we feel within the body somatically and we want to change it or find relief or manage it in some way. Eating disorders, often develop. I fell into this work because I think just me to a core, I'm someone who maneuvers through the life with curiosity, kindness. I've always cared about others.

[00:03:46] I started out my first career as an educator, as a teacher. what I saw was students came into my classroom with so many other things going on in their life. Then we're forced to try to perform in the [00:04:00] classroom. And so as I got to know the students and understand, I learned about all of the experiences that were painful that they were bringing into school.

[00:04:08] I knew I wanted to do something more than be a teacher to them. I found that role very fulfilling, but knew I wanted to do more. And then I myself, due to a number of factors, had an eating disorder for probably up to 15 years. It started in high school and lasted throughout college and through my young twenties.

[00:04:26] during that, many of us, when we've been through something and find our way through it, we like to give back and play it forward. I use that my own experience as my own gut and a part of my compass. But I never let that get in the way. Of understanding someone else's story, just because I've lived something that had some bit of similarity.

[00:04:48] I came down here to Florida and worked in the nonprofit world and eventually went to school at Rollins College and knew right from there that although I wanted to work with many different aspects of [00:05:00] mental and emotional health, I really had a calling to help individuals. With body image disturbance and use of eating disorder behaviors in order to manage their pain or suffering.

[00:05:11] And I started out, I worked at a higher level of care for a couple years and also have my private practice. And I was so fortunate because I got introduced to EMDR, right, right out of grad school and got trained in it. So right from the beginning of my work, I became a trauma informed therapist. And I think trauma is a buzzword and some people are a little turned off by it.

[00:05:35] It's really having a case conceptualization in EMDR. For anyone listening who's an EMDR therapist or understands it, we use the AIP model, the adaptive information processing model to look at negative life experiences and how they accumulate and how when they're maladaptively stored in our memory networks.

[00:05:57] They are frozen in time. Mm-hmm. And create [00:06:00] negative belief systems. 

[00:06:01] Emotional dysregulation, but stored somatic sensations and basically hijack our nervous system. 

[00:06:08] And as they accumulate, they become mud on our windshield as we navigate life. And so I'm so thankful that I have that lens as I sit with clients.

[00:06:20] I can better understand. the many different factors that can play into their current place of suffering, which goes all the way back to attachment in utero and depending how you think, even intergenerational trauma. And I find my work so rewarding. I've learned so much from so many of my clients who have been so courageous.

[00:06:41] vulnerable and allowed me to walk the path of healing with them and have learned from so many of the great minds in the world of mental health and counseling and EMDR and trauma and all the others that have influenced my life and helped me understand human beings. [00:07:00] Just have a calling towards being present with people, creating a safe space in my office for them to show up however they are and eventually tell their story to me and for us to find our way towards healing.

[00:07:12] Oh, 

[00:07:13] that was such a beautiful story I love, when I hear you I sense the passion you have and just sharing your story really helps enlighten me there's so much that even I don't know. for those that are just new when it comes to, for those who do not have direct experience.

[00:07:34] How would you describe what an eating disorder really is and what it is not? 

[00:07:42] It's a, I've been asked that question so many times and it's really a big question. So I'll do my best to summarize it and I have a couple little notes jotted down just to keep me in alignment. 'cause it is, it is a pretty big question.

[00:07:55] I think from a trauma lens, it is, a [00:08:00] maladaptive coping skill that has come about and became an answer to soothe an aspect of somebody's suffering. Hmm. and it is oftentimes rooted way back in attachment. It doesn't mean that parents or caretakers or attachment figures did anything wrong, 

[00:08:17] But oftentimes there's injuries that can create aspects of emotion dysregulation if difficulties with affect management. even different wounds dealing with wound and body learning to set boundaries with our body that we weren't able to set with our voice. but I don't think that that really encompasses all aspects of eating disorders.

[00:08:38] if we think of, eating disorders in and of themselves again, they become a self-soothing, dissociative strategy. And they're societally perpetuated. We teach individuals. To use food to soothe. We teach individuals that it's good to limit and restrict and change our bodies. We teach people [00:09:00] that there's good and bad food categories.

[00:09:02] We teach people that they feel good enough and can feel in a control of their body and food. We're not supposed to necessarily be controlling those things in the way that we're taught. Mm-hmm. But we're influenced all around us that when somebody loses 10 pounds. People comment on that and praise them.

[00:09:22] When somebody has weight gain, they are commented and oppressed and statements made about that. We are applauded when we are at the gym for hours at a time. We have this aspect, that is very ma a maladaptive view that we are inundated with. From early on, pre-verbal, a long time ago, an old statistic before social media, before we were inundated with technology like we are today.

[00:09:50] Um, this old statistic was we take in 10,000 messages about our food weight body in one day. Wow. And we don't even know that we're taking them [00:10:00] in. And so whether our negative life experiences were because we were bullied because of our weight, or we didn't get to be the flyer on a cheerleading squad because of our weight or, um, something like sexual abuse where our body was harmed.

[00:10:18] And now we are trying to either shrink it or control it or protect it or dissociate from it. 

[00:10:25] 

[00:10:25] eating disorder behaviors come in as a method to, to create relief. To create a relief from suffering that might be to control what can't be controlled. This is where I'm gonna just look down so I can summarize it really quick.

[00:10:41] Yeah. To. Allowed and un intolerable to disconnect from the suffering, to control or change a body, maybe a body that does not align with our gender identity. And we are trying to shift and change so we're not so triggered by that body to defend from feelings related to failure. [00:11:00] Not good enough or not enoughness to feel safe when a world around us feels unsafe to feel good enough.

[00:11:06] When we felt a lack of good enough, it might be to punish the body. It might be to feel cared for sometimes when we're, eating food, it's a sense of being cared for, loved or nurtured. Yes. And we the deficit of that, We're gonna utilize food to create that. We may utilize food to feel, accept, or, uh, control our bodies or use food in an attempt to feel a sense of belonging or acceptance.

[00:11:35] we might have an attachment figure who's been dieting and controlling their body, and we find if we start trying to manipulate our body, we feel connected and seen and attached to them. Or maybe we feel a sense of belonging. 

[00:11:47] We 

[00:11:47] might use it to feel power. 

[00:11:50] 

[00:11:50] Somebody can control a lot of things in my life, but they can't control what I eat and what I don't eat.

[00:11:56] Um, we might use it to feel hidden, small, or [00:12:00] protected. We may either have a, be using food to try to restrict and not only numb the feelings 

[00:12:07] But to also change the shape of the body. Or we might use. Um, loss of control eating in order to change the shape of the body in order to protect it. So I could go on and on and on.

[00:12:19] Basically eating disorder behaviors at one moment, where the best answer that somebody's system could come up with to, to soothe the suffering. And to create a positive feeling state. 

[00:12:31] In the world of EMDR, we learn about positive affect or positive feeling states, and that's that feeling of when I restrict.

[00:12:40] And I feel that sense of, look how strong I was. I, I didn't eat that. And everyone else at the table ate the french fries. There could be a sense of power, there could be a sense of control or good enoughness, and we have a response to that. And then we also could have an aspect [00:13:00] of, Again, like that feeling cared for.

[00:13:03] I put food into my mouth and instantly I feel that sense of being cared for or nurtured, and those are really powerful experiences. 

[00:13:11] and then outside of that, well, and with that, if we can notice that, we can begin to look and see where have the wounds happened. Hmm. Where has this person been left to feel, lack of caring for lack of power, lack of control.

[00:13:26] a sense of. well, a little different than that kind of pulling us out of the emotional piece that also, if we are restricting, we are going to then binge. 

[00:13:36] We look at binge eating disorder and we often look at people with binge eating disorder or loss of control eating and think, well, they don't have any control.

[00:13:45] There's lots of negative words that get put on an individual with that kind of eating without looking at what's going on underneath. And if they've been taught to restrict. A body is going to grab food when it can have it, and then [00:14:00] there's shame, there's embarrassment, there's all sorts of labels they place on themselves.

[00:14:05] And so then they're going to move and try to restrict and manage the food, which will then can lead to, and again, another moment of loss of control eating. So it can be physiological and it also can be mental and emotional. Wow. it was a lot and I probably missed a whole lot of things and maybe even misspoke on a few things.

[00:14:25] again, it is such a big It is, 

[00:14:28] it 

[00:14:29] is. '

[00:14:29] could also possibly be, could be habitual. Yes. people may assume eating disorders can only be from trauma, but it could also be habitual or, know for us in the Mexican household, if your mom makes you food, you gotta finish the plate.

[00:14:45] I've had that and even meetings. now people are just, here's the donuts, or there's an event and here's all the food. Why aren't you getting the cake? it's just like, oh my goodness. really thinking 

[00:14:56] about those social aspects, those cultural aspects, [00:15:00] those familial as.

[00:15:01] Aspects that play into different kind of rules and ways of being with food, showing up and being polite. again, how offensive that could be if weren't having everything from everything that was served. at that table. just different family rules and family ways. Again, maybe the, the ways of the family have always been very health focused, clean eating, organic eating, and that can begin as, okay, that's a value system, but cannot become a maladaptive behavior and lead to something that we label.

[00:15:35] It's not a diagnosis term, but orthorexia, which is, we have now been so focused on some of these ways that we value, but we are now not ending up taking in enough. And then that can begin to be more compulsive. oh, wow. And then if we think of neurodivergence, I think our, our broader understanding is a culture and society of autism spectrum disorder and [00:16:00] ADHD and even those without, without neurodivergent brains that have sensory issues.

[00:16:06] Yes. Sometimes it's an aspect of managing the sensory of that food is really intolerable and that's where this diagnosis of our fed, avoidant and restricted feeding and eating disorders that most people never understood was even one of the eating disorders plays out. There isn't a weight focus of that all the time.

[00:16:27] It's that this food is really uncomfortable, but I'm being told I have to eat it. But it is setting off aspects or do I have some of that time blindness and lunchtime goes by and I don't even think to stop and eat lunch. 

[00:16:43] Yes. And even chemically talking. 'cause I'm ADHD and lack the dopamine production, serotonin, nor epinephrine.

[00:16:51] So automatically my body's going to be craving anything that produces dopamine and then add. Sleep [00:17:00] and tiredness. My functionings worse. I can't think straight, especially right now, with candies and Halloween and stuff. Let me get some candies 'cause it's a short, quick burst of dopamine and I have to tell my husband when I'm not on my medication to stabilize that part of my prefrontal cortex and be like, okay, I'm going to be jonesin for some dopamine.

[00:17:23] And what can I do? I can go work out, I can for, get some dopamine, but I have to be more mindful that I'm going to be wanting that. , it's more of the dopamine. ADHD. And it's knowing and deciphering. Discerning that which, which brings me, there's so many myths and misconception with someone that struggles with eating disorders on how it's starts or anything.

[00:17:48] Can you name, I guess, one big misconception or myth that people tend to. Mention around that topic of eating disorders with someone who struggles with that. 

[00:17:59] Well, I think [00:18:00] one major myth, which has even been part of our research where there's been a deficit in research Is that eating disorders only affect white, upper class, cisgender heterosexual females.

[00:18:12] Ooh. That is where most of the research in the past has been, particularly with anorexia nervosa. That was actually more of where the research was focused than even on say, binge eating disorder or bulimia. And when you look at it and more and more research, there was a research article called Plea for Diversity.

[00:18:31] Mm-hmm. that I read a couple years ago. That's begging for more research on eating disorders across all identities and eating now. Some ethnicities. Um, some individuals with stated ethnicities or with other identities may not say that they have an eating disorder. They may not even know that it's, that it's something they could have.

[00:18:53] But again, everyone has negative life experiences. Everyone has stress. everyone has a body. Everyone [00:19:00] has. Food, um, that they have to engage with on a regular basis. We can't step away from our bodies or foods. Um, and every culture and every ethnicity and every family and sub community have body ideals and beauty ideals.

[00:19:15] And they may be very different. So somebody in a, a minority, someone in a minority community trying to acculturate to the dominant community has all of their own body and beauty and food experiences, and then they're trying to acculturate to the dominant. And that can create a lot of confusion about needing to change body, shift body to fit in, to belong.

[00:19:41] I think that, that, that is one major myth. Another myth is. That it's about the food. It really isn't. Now, sometimes it is, as you were talking about, if we get into kind of a disordered or maladaptive pattern of using food for dopamine throughout our day. but a lot of the time food is just the [00:20:00] representation, or the source to give somebody the sense of control, power, good enough, cared for whatever it might be, and that we often think that eating disorders are about vanity.

[00:20:13] Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:14] Not about vanity. we think that eating disorders, are again about if we've had something directly related to our body and our body not belonging, which that is. I mean, individuals who live in higher weight bodies are inundated with micro and macro aggressions against their body and are taught by a lot of.

[00:20:35] The health, the, health world to change their body. So sometimes it is directly they've been taught that their body is wrong and they need to change it. But other times it's about those negative experiences that we feel somatically in our body. And when that gets stuck in our body, it can feel discomfort and we wanna get [00:21:00] out.

[00:21:00] I've heard clients describe their experience with, their negative thought about their body is, I'm disgusting, but in our processing and in our therapy, what they actually start to talk about is, I felt disgusting inside when that experience happened. And I felt all those feelings. And I had no one to talk about and I had to keep playing out this role.

[00:21:26] It felt disgusting in my body. Wow. So it wasn't actually about their body, it was about the experience, but this stored somatic experience that accumulated plus those negative thoughts such as. in, in the world of EMDR, we think about it on those plateaus of negative thoughts about responsibility or defectiveness.

[00:21:47] Mm-hmm. Right. I'm responsible or I'm not good enough, I'm bad. Or it could be an aspect of lack of safety. Yeah. Or, or lack of power control or choices. And so if [00:22:00] we're having somatic experiences, emotions, and these negative cognitions, oftentimes the behaviors with. Food or other compensatory behaviors relieve that stored somatic experience or give us an experience, like a feeling state.

[00:22:18] Yeah. That makes us feel a sense of control or a sense of safety. Mm-hmm. Or a sense of good enough, or I've been responsible, so now I'm doing the good thing by carrying this out because I was told what I was doing was bad or not good enough, or it was my fault. 

[00:22:34] Yeah. 

[00:22:35] So those are some of the, a couple of the simple, or the main kind of myths that I hear that we need to debunk.

[00:22:43] fighting that fight of debunking all of that. I feel the programming, what you said so many thousands of messages a day and something that really stands out in your work and I wanted to have this conversation is. How much overlap there is between people pleasing and eating [00:23:00] behaviors, both coming from this deep hunger as you've mentioned.

[00:23:03] Love, safety, acceptance, control when things feel chaotic and it, it's important here for those that are people pleasers, it's. part of the nervous system, fight, flight, freeze, fawn. Um, because it's more than just being nice and helpful, as you mentioned, there's like a safety there or worthy or control.

[00:23:22] it could come if the peacemaker, the perfectionist and overachieving. Caretaking. How do you see people pleasing show up in, in people who you work around with, like with food and body image? 

[00:23:35] I think if we think of people pleasing, which a few of your words we're connecting with, what I was gonna say, that's a manager part, taking on a role to people, please.

[00:23:45] Right. And there might be more than one part. 

[00:23:47] and so that part has recognized it, recognized to defend some of my, my wounds, some of my pain and suffering, some of my exiles who might hold negative material, [00:24:00] traumatic material, or if you're thinking of structural dissociation, it be an emotional part.

[00:24:05] We call them eps. Different language than IFS. so that that part is doing something for the system by people pleasing by if I please you and don't aggravate you and meet your needs, just like you said, whew, I feel safe. If I've got a collection of experiences that have left me feeling unsafe, that that manager part plus other ones are probably hopping on board too, to help us feel safe, but that people pleaser is gonna do that action because, I'm safe.

[00:24:36] if I do that and you like me, I'm good enough. Right. Or it could be that when I do that, I feel in control because that manager is making sure that I'm managing this situation and I'm controlling the emotional response that if I wasn't a people pleaser and you got upset with something I said because I disagreed with you.

[00:24:58] I think that [00:25:00] people pleasing is a, it was an answer at one time and continues to play an answer. 

[00:25:05] Recorded eating behaviors are another manager part that have learned to, to take on these behaviors, to manage what was unmanageable or what was uncomfortable. What, what wasn't unsafe or what was unsafe.

[00:25:19] The way we lacked control. 

[00:25:21] a way that we didn't feel good enough. So they're both here defending the system. Yeah. All of us have all of these, whether you think of them or parts, whether you think of them as defenses, parts that carry out defenses. We've got all of these. And now think about this.

[00:25:38] If I'm spending my day people pleasing, I am left with a lot of suffering in the background because I have disowned my authenticity. I have disowned my values. I have acted outside of who I am and how I really think. Just in order to protect myself. that can feel traumatic. 

[00:25:59] I've got an eating [00:26:00] disorder over here, but then when I leave, if I was people pleasing with you right now and we close down, I've now got my eating disorder to numb and help me dissociate.

[00:26:13] To quiet, to soothe all of that dysregulation. sometimes they might be hand in hand, but I think other times they come in and soothe what is left over. After I've spent my day people pleasing. Yeah. And basically taken my authentic self and tossed her in the backseat. And now I'm really dysregulated and confused and maybe even feeling shame.

[00:26:38] Or with myself because I'm trying not to be a people pleaser. But that part recognized it needed to do that, and now I'm now trying to sue that. I think that the two crossover in so many different ways, and I think those negative cognitions, those plateaus that we talk about in the a IP model. 

[00:26:58] You can have [00:27:00] people pleasing, can be in response to any of those domains and so can eating disorders so they match up in that way too. Both can be a trauma response. 

[00:27:11] And 

[00:27:11] one can help soothe the residual experience of that defense being present. 

[00:27:18] How do you help connect them because it's such a parallel and some may connect with one not the other.

[00:27:24] They choose not to. How do you help connect those protective parts, that do the people pleasing and, and do the ADHD disorders so that they can be able to, 'cause part of IFS is. Working with your system together. Yeah. Not get away. Get away. No, no. Avoiding it, which is still people pleasing, avoidance of it.

[00:27:46] How do you help them connect with those protective parts? 

[00:27:49] Well, I think I foster just as many of us do. A sense of curiosity. Kindness connection and seeking understanding [00:28:00] in our sessions and looking at our system as a whole. Yeah. Whether you are an expert in IFS, whether you learned parts from Gestalt or Structural Dissociation, or think of them in ego states, no matter what your training level is, you can learn more, you can read more, but it's helping our clients learn that they have many different parts of them.

[00:28:23] And if, my dear friend and mentor Andrew Suber came up with an acronym, and I love this acronym, and as he works with parts, he helps them create a sense of respect. first we create a sense of we can just be curious first before that and be noticing our system and understanding why different parts exist and how they've all been trying to manage the system best they can.

[00:28:49] then we lean in and we create respect for each part. And I've had parents say, what do you mean respect for the eating disorder? It is killing my child [00:29:00] and it is destroying our family. What do you mean? And I said, it is become extremely maladaptive and is causing chaos. But in the system, the first time that eating disorder part utilized its defense.

[00:29:17] It quieted a fire. And the system was like, you've got it. And it realized it would, there was no one, nothing else was quieting that fire at the time. 

[00:29:26] So if we can respect and have even other parts, all looking at every part was doing the best it could and they were all trying to serve the system.

[00:29:37] that leads to understanding. And then it can lead to gratitude. What do you mean gratitude for my eating disorder? Well, Anita, some of the clients that I've heard their stories, they would not have survived. Their eating disorder actually was their hope to get through a horrendous suffering, [00:30:00] intolerable experience.

[00:30:02] it isn't needed the same and it is causing more destruction, but I want them to hold gratitude that that part stepped up when they didn't have anything else to step up. And then we can create collaborative goals within the system. If we're after relief, let's honor that. Mm-hmm. Is there another part now, or does the wise adult self have resources external.

[00:30:29] Could we create more internal resources? Could one of the parts that's been managing it in this way could we tack the sail and use that strength in a different way? the system learns to heal and to work together. And the a metaphor that I learned a long time ago that I love is to think of our system as an orchestra.

[00:30:51] as we fan the flame on that wise adult self, that's our adult plus that self energy that can even connect us to our [00:31:00] higher power of the universe if we keep fanning the flame on that as the leader. 'cause some individuals haven't had the life that has fostered them. To have a wise, confident self.

[00:31:13] And that part gets to be the orchestra. No part has to go away. No part has to be banished because they're causing a little bit more chaos now than they originally did. But they are learning new ways to care for the system and we are leading them. And when I want the flute section. To have a, a duet or a solo, I'm inviting them forward to do their thing and join in with me.

[00:31:39] My, my kindness part gets to step forward. My creative part gets to step in when I'm doing something and we're creating them to be present. Right. Some people think of it as driving a car and our parts are in the backseat and inviting them to step into the front seat and join in, but [00:32:00] they have a leader.

[00:32:01] So many of us, as we were growing up and developing and dealing with hard moments and traumatic moments, we did not get to have a leader. our parts were left to run the show. And if we can. Ongoing connection, curiosity, understanding, respect, and figuring out what is needed and what needs to shift differently in the system.

[00:32:27] All parts can learn to still have really important roles and let go of some of the jobs. When you ask parts, sometimes if you could take a break, would you like to, they're like, yes. But I can't. So help me figure out how to do that and create new alliances between parts so that they can help one another.

[00:32:49] I love that. And 

[00:32:50] when the 

[00:32:51] healing the how. What does healing begin to look like when they start trusting that healthy self? [00:33:00] 

[00:33:00] I think that it begins to look like being self-led. Based on living their values. From a valued based place. Using their strengths and talents. Yeah. Being able to live in the and not the, or being able to function with the dichotomies happening and knowing that this wise self can help access resources if our system doesn't have them.

[00:33:28] Wow. learning to collaborate and as we're doing that healing, the trauma that's underneath. So as I'm healing my trauma, my experience stored in my mind, heart and body is changing, and the mud on my windshield is beginning to get wiped off. So I'm able to see things as they are and see myself as I am, even with, if we wanna call them imperfections, areas of growth, seeing ourselves as beautiful [00:34:00] masterpieces.

[00:34:00] That have fractures and injuries and that those actually make us unique and amazing, and diversity is something to be embraced in our society. Diversity scares a lot of people. 

[00:34:15] Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:16] diversity is this beautiful thing that says each one of us was created. with these special characteristics and talents and ideas, and each one of us was meant to be in this world to offer something unique.

[00:34:29] as we heal, we begin to see that and learn that even if we fall down and something doesn't work, how do we learn from that instead of crumbling and numbing and dissociating, and instead leaning in to how we can use that to continue moving forward. And recognizing what those gifts are and what the purpose that they want their life to be.

[00:34:53] Somebody said, we're all writing our books and when we get to the end of the, end of our lives and the end of our [00:35:00] book, what was the theme of our book? Yeah. And learning that and figuring out how your system can be healed enough to let that light kind of guide you forward. Ugh. 

[00:35:11] Yes. You just described authenticity at its, 

[00:35:14] perfection. I love that. And I know you mentioned, I read brain spotting. How does EMDR and brain spotting differ in their approach, and how do they compliment each other? Well. 

[00:35:28] David, one of my many, amazing mentors early on in my EMDR training said, well, there's a brain spotting training coming to Orlando.

[00:35:36] You've gotta do it. And I was like, whatever you tell me to do, I'm gonna do. 'cause I just wanna learn and grow. David Grand was an EMDR therapist and he. Developed BRAINSPOTTING from EMDR. So we don't use actual bilateral stimulation the way that we do typically with EMDR or some call it dual attention stimulation now.

[00:35:59] we [00:36:00] use, bilateral music. So there's headphones on that has, bilateral tones, interweaved in very gentle classical nature sounds. And what David Grand found was that the correlations, so again, EMDR is about eye movements and how it triggers the neurobiological processes to process, maladaptively stored material.

[00:36:25] David Grand found that the direction of your eyes. Side to side or up and down. Correlates to where those memories are stored in your brain. So he, it's called a brain spot. You might notice that when you talk to some people and they're in a story, they might stop looking at you and they're kind of in what we call a gay spot.

[00:36:48] Mm-hmm. They're accessing that spot in their brain where that information is coming from. 

[00:36:54] Oh, wow. 

[00:36:54] brain spotting is having someone notice that disturbance. And [00:37:00] instead of asking our seven magic questions like we do in EMDR and activating the the networks, And then beginning processing, we have them notice it, and then we have our little pointer where we have them go very slowly following it to the side and back to this side, and then up and down.

[00:37:18] And my clients tell me where they feel that in their body the strongest. And then I hold them there with the bilateral music and we're inviting them to be more of a somatic noticing and allowing the body to release what has been stored in the body from what has been stored in the brain. 

[00:37:39] Wow. 

[00:37:39] the combination of EMDR and brain spotting can be really wonderful.

[00:37:45] Now, very strict. EMDR therapists. Probably would say no, we don't stop and stop 'em in a brain spot. I have a lot of clients use bilateral music while we're doing EMDR, but the two blend [00:38:00] beautifully. And again, help us understand the correlation of the eyes, the optic nerve, and how the eyes and the brain and the body are all connected.

[00:38:11] Yeah, so beautiful. I feel that eating disorders is so complex and you mentioned a statistic that I'd rather you mention it than me 'cause I'll probably flubber it all because it's crazy. Behooves me that, the statistic with the DSM and the risk of of death when it comes to eating disorder.

[00:38:34] Can you mention that statistic? 

[00:38:38] one person dies of an eating disorder every hour. It is a mental health condition, but it has a physiological response and can cause harm and can, whether that is restricting, whether you are in a thin, small body or a larger size body restriction is gonna cause [00:39:00] damage to lean muscle mass, which is lean is our organs heart.

[00:39:04] lower heart rate, binging and purging. Purging can cause electrolyte imbalance. It can cause lacerations in the throat just to name a few. So eating disorders, have a very serious medical risk, which is why we need to work comprehensively. 

[00:39:24] Yeah. 

[00:39:24] When I work with someone with an eating disorder, I make sure that there is a qualified medical provider on the team.

[00:39:32] Yeah. And sometimes several specialists on the team if needed. In any higher level of care facility, you are gonna have medical providers working with these clients. You're also gonna have psychiatric providers? Not always. I have some clients that don't need pharmacological agents. Mm-hmm. But many do for at least for a time being.

[00:39:55] And then you wanna have a eating disorder. eating disorder specialist [00:40:00] who's a dietician, they have the same credentials as CEDS credential. To help them rework their relationship with food and take some of the fear away and hold that for them. But we wanna have a comprehensive team. And when a client has a more, a severe eating disorder.

[00:40:19] We might be having the meeting with the physician monthly, having eyes on them, tracking that if a client is refeeding, we wanna have eyes on them in order to make sure that their body is safe during the refeeding process. 

[00:40:33] Oh my gosh. And I think in comparison to all the other diagnoses, and we're talking here, you know, opioid addiction and, substance abuse, suicide.

[00:40:47] It's one of the highest, the eating disorders in comparison to other, disorders. And I was just like, wow. I didn't know it had that much effect [00:41:00] on society. 

[00:41:02] And all of them, if like individuals will tell me what are the co-occurring disorders with eating disorders? Mm-hmm. You could have almost anything in the DSM.

[00:41:10] I mean it is anxiety, depression, dissociation, PTSD. I don't like to call these disorders 'cause I don't think they are. ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder. Substance use substance disorders. we have a, they all, because again, all of these can, the eating disorder might be assisting them.

[00:41:30] Or it's all a representation of the suffering in the system. The hijack nervous system being in high sympathetic nervous system being stuck, stuck in dorsal vagal. so there's, there's a, co-occurring. We very seldom treat someone for an eating disorder, and there isn't anything else there. 

[00:41:48] Oh, I love how you said that, and with the holidays coming up, I know there's a time with family dynamics, cultural, pressure, food, emotional triggers.

[00:41:58] It's like, boom, [00:42:00] all in one. I, I'd love for you to share, how people can start preparing their systems to stay regulated. 

[00:42:08] Well, I think, right, like you just mentioned, we've got, not only is there a plethora of food and it's different depending on culture and family, what that is, and the kind of food or the type of food in which holiday you might be.

[00:42:21] celebrating during this time, but there's all this focus and then there's always a focus on body, right? In some cultures your greeting is, oh, look, you've lost weight, or Look, you've gained weight. That's just part of some culture's. Natural greetings I've learned. 

[00:42:36] and then there's gonna be, different triggering experiences being around different family members or different, bigger parties.

[00:42:43] Maybe I'm, very introverted and kind of socially anxious and I've gotta go to all these parties and maybe I don't even celebrate these holidays and I have to go and try to. Try to navigate that. stress, financial stressors, travel stressors, getting work done [00:43:00] in order to have time off. There's so many things.

[00:43:02] So I think for individuals is creating their self-care plan. 

[00:43:07] Recognizing what their resources are. Example, the national. For eating disorders. I'm one of their, volunteer for them. Joanna Kde is the CEO and has created an amazing nonprofit organization. I believe in her work down to my core. 

[00:43:23] They have free eating disorder support groups and they have lots of different groups for different, collections of identities. And they now have them about two times every day, even on Saturday. So recognizing that you could step outta your family function or whatever function it was, and hop onto a support group.

[00:43:44] And feel individuals who understand and can offer support and kind of ground yourself. it might be recognizing and creating what is my meal plan gonna be for the day? What, what am I gonna do for my breakfast [00:44:00] knowing that then I'm gonna be at this lunch that maybe is gonna feel really challenging.

[00:44:04] Sometimes asking for what the menu is gonna be so you can kind of create a plan of what you're gonna have so that you're not put in the moment and scared of it. 

[00:44:15] Thinking about who are those safe, comforting, kind, grounding people that might be there at those functions. 

[00:44:23] recognizing that we can set boundaries and say no to things and not go.

[00:44:27] that we can step out and go use the bathroom, or go out and sit outside for a few minutes and do our breathing, use our earth, air, water, fire, and ground ourself, reconnect with us, and then step, step back in, to the situation, which, I mean, these things are for individuals even when they don't have an eating disorder.

[00:44:48] Like sometimes individuals with. neurodivergent brains. Can you I was about to 

[00:44:52] say I do all of that. Yeah. 'cause like the turkey's too Turkish, you know, the chicken's too. Chickeny. I'm very sensory with [00:45:00] food and around public people or just people in general have to really ground myself before and after to not get overstimulated.

[00:45:09] So, I love all these tools and this has been such a powerful conversation. Thank you for sharing your insight and heart. And before we close, I do want for the listeners to know where they can connect with you, follow your work, or learn about anything new that, might be coming up. 

[00:45:28] sure.

[00:45:28] They can go to my website, which is, Marni Davis, LMHC. Mm-hmm. And, they can, I am not as much on Instagram as many others, but stepping into that, so Marni Davis, LMHC will be, growing. I also have chart chats with Charlie, who's my little Yorkie who does a lot of. Work with me and he puts little therapeutic, thoughts up on his Instagram.

[00:45:53] I was a co-author for an amazing book that Andrew Suber and Pam Verdi, edited, which is the Trauma-Informed [00:46:00] Approaches to Eating Disorders. Yes. I got to co-author a chapter with a dear friend of mine, Joslyn Smith, so they could find me there. There's a podcast on, the Andrea, Ock, 

[00:46:12] EMDR podcast.

[00:46:13] It was so good. I listened to it. I'll put those in the notes, man. They have to put those in the notes so they could be like, I wanna hear more of her. Listen to this 

[00:46:21] next podcast 

[00:46:22] for sure. 

[00:46:23] currently there's still one of my older trainings on, eating disorder ego states and EMDR engaging in the dance.

[00:46:30] Yes. It's a four hour training for providers that's currently up on the envision. Training and workshops. but I'm gonna be having all of my, trainings. Their new home is gonna be with Connect Connect. EMDR is a local training group with so many dear friends and colleagues and amazing EMDR therapists.

[00:46:50] And so they're gonna be the home of my eating disorder trainings coming up in the near future. And those 

[00:46:56] trainings are amazing. That's how I got to know you, and I was like, oh my [00:47:00] gosh. The way you presented the workshop and just. Got to teach eating disorders and I was like, I have to know more of her.

[00:47:08] And then when I saw you were doing for professionals, the the monthly, consultation group and I was like, I want in. So that's something that you're starting to do as well, you the monthly Yes. I'll 

[00:47:21] mention that. That is. I've done it free for about almost two years. I think it's been about two years that I've done that.

[00:47:28] It's a free, eating disorders and EMDR consultation group the first Friday of every month. at nine o'clock Eastern standard time, I am gonna start charging maybe $25 for it. Yes. as I have done it for free for quite a while and it's not just sitting there me pretending I'm the expert. 'cause I'm not an expert.

[00:47:47] I'm always learning. I know a lot by now because I've learned a lot. But it's really a place, for us all to come together. Kind of like a study group format. 

[00:47:56] Where we all get to put our heads together. We all get to be experts in a [00:48:00] moment. We all get to learn. We get to share ideas and no pun intended, chew on some cases and know that we're not alone because.

[00:48:08] The eating disorder provider community is a specialty community and it's growing, but it's still rather small. Yeah. And the, the specialty of eating disorders and EMDR is even smaller, so I wanted a place where people come and know they can come one month, not come the next, and know that we'll always be there and be able to just learn some of the basics, just feel supported, share some cool things they've learned or tried.

[00:48:35] And just enhance our overall community so that we all can continue to do the amazing work that we're doing with our clients and individuals, that walk in our offices or our treatment centers, depending on where we work. 

[00:48:48] thank you. And I've been taking those monthly, and let me tell you, well worth it, the value I get from hearing everybody converse and talk and the way you, facilitate the group.

[00:48:59] It's just [00:49:00] amazing and priceless. So, yeah. And, Marni, I always end each episode with two reflective questions for my guests. Just a little sole prompt leaving our listeners. Thinking from your perspective, what is your definition of an empowered 

[00:49:19] woman? I think an empowered woman is a woman who.

[00:49:26] Finds a way to stand in her authenticity In all of its forms, and speaks what she believes needs to be heard and knows that what she thinks and feels and knows is important, is worthy and worth sharing and others hearing and honoring. Oh. That was beautiful. Thank you. We're powerful. US women are powerful.

[00:49:58] I have a t-shirt that says women will [00:50:00] change the world. We do, and I have to think we are the, we are world changers. We are. We might get squashed, we might be told to back off. We keep stepping as I tell all my clients, kind of like, Dory, keep swimming, keep stepping. 

[00:50:16] keep stepping, keep showing up and let yourself be seen.

[00:50:19] Yes. 

[00:50:20] I love that. And my last question, assuming in the future everything about your work, you, your legacy, who you are, is lost by some unforeseen circumstance and one day in the future, three family line generations. Great, great niece. You know, child, just a person within your family lineage, there was found one handwritten letter to them.

[00:50:48] What truth would you bestow and pass on to her to inspire her and other women to continue empowering one [00:51:00] another? 

[00:51:00] Well, I think it would kind of be summed up in one word, which I think sums me up is kindness. And kindness doesn't mean weak. Kindness does not mean soft. Kindness does not mean that you don't stand for what you believe in.

[00:51:15] I think kindness to yourself. kindness to others and recognizing that kindness to others is us showing up, being us, letting ourselves be seen. And I think passing on the idea of kindness, which again, kindness can be strong, it can be power, it can be bright and loud. It can be gentle and soft. It can be all of the words.

[00:51:42] That I think embrace your kindness. 

[00:51:44] I love that. Thank you again for welcome. Being here for reminding us that healing our relationship with food, love and approval begins with compassion. Kindness for the parts that try to help us survive. And Charlie, is he there [00:52:00] by any chance? Yes. I'll go. Wake him up.

[00:52:02] Surprise cohost helping us, just give us insight, his perspective.

[00:52:06] There. He's, hello Charlie. Oh, the little 

[00:52:09] fur baby. You are just the cutest. And Charlie is one of the things I use in my office is if you could see yourself the way Charlie sees you. Right? Jim Knight talks about the Loving Eyes Protocol and it's this amazing protocol, and I'll use just a quick intervention of Charlie's eyes if you can see yourself.

[00:52:29] With Charlie's eyes, how would you see yourself? 

[00:52:33] 

[00:52:33] love that there's Charlie 

[00:52:35] and he 

[00:52:36] His eyes and you know, I was wondering when our honorary co-host would be making an appearance and he's so good. I didn't hear anything from him. 

[00:52:46] Yep. He was good. He was over there curled up, trying to look underneath the door.

[00:52:50] But the cool thing about Charlie is too, that I had wanted him to be a therapy dog. 

[00:52:54] And he's not a therapy dog. He's just my office dog. Um, he passed a lot of the [00:53:00] dog. You know, a KC, good citizen, all that. But he has anxiety and he's beautiful in his anxiety. He's quirky in his anxiety. And everyone that comes in the office, I'm like, Charlie has anxiety.

[00:53:12] He'll take him one or two sessions to get to know you and then he'll do spins and dance for you. And they're like, Charlie, I have anxiety too. I get it. So I think it's just really special that, he does amazing work. Don't you? That's 

[00:53:26] just the best kind of energy. This unconditional support.

[00:53:30] 

[00:53:30] Oh, and how old is he? He's, eight and a half. Eight and a half. You'll look nothing older than four. 

[00:53:38] He's older 

[00:53:38] than me. 

[00:53:39] He is a middle aged man in 

[00:53:40] dog 

[00:53:40] years. 

[00:53:42] Well, thank you so much for, for bringing Charlie. Thank you Charlie for being our surprise co-host here and keeping us grounded.

[00:53:50] Helping us realize that it's okay to be, to not be okay. It's okay to be okay. It's okay just to be us. And until next time, be well. Stay [00:54:00] safe and keep walking your empowered, authentic path, everyone. 

[00:54:03] Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Empowering Women in Conversations. This conversation has ended, but your journey to empowerment continues. Please share with someone you know who will find this conversation helpful and inspiring. And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until our next empowered conversation with your host, licensed professional counselor, Anita Sandoval.

[00:54:30] And remember, we are brave. We are strong, we are compassionate. We are women empowered. Go out there and claim your power.